counter off tackle vs 5-3

TJ,

Look through the posts on the installing the running game board, specifically for post's by oneback. Two specific ones were started around Nov 29th & 30th and are titled something like "gap down schemes" and "redskins power/counter". He really explains the o-line's rules for blocking power/counter and has helped me with the play a ton.

Give me the EXACT alignment of everbody in the 5-3 vs a 2 TE/2 WR set. The Counter is the best play we have vs the 5-3 & the Bears 46 (similar).

.

Oneback,

How about 9,5,0,5,9 and LB's are 40,00,40 ?

Seattle Coach:

TE down blocks the 5.
ON T combos on the 5 to the MLB (NOTE - if you had rather "gap" than combo - just send ON T to MLB)
ON G down blocks Nose
OFF G pull & trap 9
OFF T pull & lead thru on 40 LB (if he runs thru trap him & it becomes a DOUBLE TRAP).

NOTE: - we (as do many) now pull the H back instead of the Off T, but you can do it EITHER way.

This is a VERY GOOD play vs this look!

Hi coach

Thanks for the great info. This is the way I would block the play. However,my head coach wants to block it as follows.

Y: Chip the 6i/7 to the outside linebacker

playside tackle:block the 4i and release the 4/5 technique and block the middle linebacker

Playside guard:block down or combo the nose

Center: combo a o technique or if uncovered block back to a three

Backside guard: Pull and kick out

Backside tackle : Pull and wall off

In this scheme,the unblocked defender is the defensive end. In the scheme,the guard is pulling to block the d-tackle. This is a problem since I feel that the scheme is unsound. In addition,our coach wants the backside tackle to pull and wall off and not turn into the cgap and find the outside linebacker.

Thanks alot

tjtjr5475

Trapping a 4I is a BITCH if there is a stack on the Center. MANY 4I's PINCH inside (or reduce to a 3 on split end side). Either way - they OUTNUMBER you 4 to 3 (2 4I's plus Nose & MLB = FOUR vs. your 3 blockers (2 G's & Ctr). We do not ATTEMPT to run into THAT "briar patch" - OFF TACKLE is where you make a living vs THIS look! Just my opinion!

ONEBACK- Is the above blocking rules for the counter you gave in response to tjtjr the same rules on the playside as the power? From reading some of the past posts I believe the only difference is the fullback (or your H) would kick the EMLOS and the off guard would wrap up on the OLB.
We are a multiple I team that relies mostly on trap and GT schemes and this would seem to be a good way to add a power aspect to our scheme as it is very similar to the GT. We have had a lot of success in the past (2 gold balls, 2 silver) in the past dozen years, but I would really like to add this to our offense because of all the similarities. We have always lined up in the Power I to give us a back to kick the EMLOS and one to block the PSLB which is the same scheme, but you can get pretty predictable in a three back offense!!
Couple more questions- What are the coaching points on the off guard wrapping up in the power scheme? Are there any differences from what the tackle does on the standard GT? Also what are the tailbacks steps? It seems like he couldn't just hit it downhill or he would outrun the guard to the hole.

Power & Counter rules = the same (only the TRAPPER & WRAPPER TRADE).

Techniques of the TRAPPER (G ON CTR; H ON POWER) = same, as are techniques of WRAPPER (G on Power; H on Counter). Great series!

COUNTER/POWER BLOCKING RULES:

1. PLAYSIDE G & T = A) IF YOUR INSIDE TEAMMATE IS UNCOVERED COMBO WITH YOUR OUTSIDE TEAMMATE FROM THE MAN ON YOU TO THE BACKSIDE LB. B) IF YOUR INSIDE TEAMATE IS COVERED COMBO WITH YOUR INSIDE TEAMMATE FROM THE MAN ON HIM TO THE BACKSIDE LB. NOTE: GAP BLOCK VS. SOLID LOOK (both G's & CTR covered).

2. TE blocks man on ON T - ON T uncovered - go to MLB area.

3. Center block first man on LOS away

4. Off G traps EMLOS on Counter & wraps PS/LB on Power

5. Off T squeeze B gap & hinge back on any chaser

6. H wraps PS/LB on Counter, & traps EMLOS (kicks out) on Power

I cannot be more specific on the site - call me at 804-740-4479 if you need more, or email questions to butzadams@hotmail.com

PS: Check my posts of Feb 4 again in conjunction with this.

TIGER ONE- You say you jab step, which i assume is on the counter. What is your running backs steps on the power though? I have seen some teams on TV crossover and plant, and some slide step and plant. What do you suggest. Also, what is the running backs aiming point?

That is correct. ONLY difference in power & counter is WHO traps & WHO wraps (leads thru). Steps for QB & RB = SAME!

The jab step on both plays allows for the wrapper to get to his assignment.

Coach Easton

Coach Mounjoy, How deep to you play your RB? This past year, our RB played VERY deep (8-9 yards) and it allowed us time to get the wrapper around on Power. He actually played in the same place on Counter which allowed his counter step to be VERY downhill (less of a jab). I guess you would suggest, instead, to just run power and counter exactly the same (taking a jab step away, then attacking the hole)?

We have had our RB's as close as HEELS at 5 1/2, and as deep as TOES at 7.

I like to keep the flat lateral jab consistent because it looks EXACTLY like the first step on our INSIDE ZONE. QB's steps are the SAME as inside zone. When Joe Gibbs ORIGINATED they Redskins "Counter" with Riggins - he stressed that it was a Counter OFF the Inside Zone.

HOW WE TEACH IT:

QB: SAME STEPS ON POWER & COUNTER. OPEN TO SIDE RB JAB STEPS & COME BACK TO 5 O'CLOCK (ON COUNTER LEFT) OR 7 O'™CLOCK (ON COUNTER RIGHT). AFTER HANDOFF - CARRY OUT GREAT BOOT FAKE OPPOSITE P.O.A.

RB: SAME STEPS ON POWER & COUNTER. JAB OPPOSITE P.O.A. - “ LOOK OFF Lbers (IMP.). HIT DOWNHILL AT BUTT OF ONSIDE TACKLE (RUN TO OUTSIDE LEG OF ONSIDE GUARD IF ONSIDE TACKLE UNCOVERED). PICK UP BLOCK OF WRAPPER & KEEP AN INSIDE HIP RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM.



TAKEN FROM BILL WALSH LECTURE AT 2003 AFCA CONVENTION (FOR WHATEVER IT'S WORTH):

FIRST - I'€™ve notice a lot of coaches place the tailback at nine yards depth, even at eight and sometimes seven. We know that the tailback from that position can cut back or bend outside. The tailback has some options as he'€™s viewing the blocking in front of him. But we also know that the tailback has at least three or four more steps to take before he gets to the line of scrimmage. So the offensive lineman or lead back have to hold their blocks that much longer.

With that in mind, PROBABLY THE BEST RUNNING GAME I HAVE SEEN IN ALL OF FOOTBALL WAS THE REDSKINS WITH JOHN RIGGINS. His heels were at five-and-a-half yards depth. He would counter step if he needed to allow time for the pulling people to get in front of him. But what we do is give up three or four steps to linebackers’ pursuit if we line up especially deep.

I suggest that you run the same exact plays with your tailback five-and-a-half yards deep. If he needs to, he can counter step to allow blocking to form. But we don'€™t allow linebackers to get full pursuit on us. We don't allow people to have three or four steps movement as we take three or four steps farther to get to the line of scrimmage.