Installing Today’s Hybrid Pistol Offense Run & Pass from Top to Bottom
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De La salle Of Concord CA. The winingest team in the country has no live scrimmage at all! The HC of the program says its makes his defense hunger for contact, they run controlled scrimmige with contact at 1/2 speed, they also run a fit and freeze drill durring the practice.
That works for them, coach, and that is fine. It may make the defense hungry for contact, but I'll take the benefit of actually hitting and perfecting technique any day of the week. Hitting a dummy has nowhere near the benefit of an actual tackle against a live dummy! How many stationary dummies can put a move on a would be tackler , not many in my opinion. You go all week without full contact scrimmage and on game night you will see missed tackles galore because the kids are used to hitting something that is always there in the same spot! I'm very much aware of the De Lasalle (SP?) program and it's tremendous success at the HS level. I hope they are able to continue to build on their tremendous reputation for winning. But, personally, I would not be at all interested in emulating that part of their program in the slightest. Just my opinio, as always.
Coach Easton
J.C. EASTON<BR>HEAD COACH<BR>GA TIGERS FOOTBALL<BR>PROFESSIONAL MINOR LEAGUE
Post by luvdemlinemen on May 10, 2005 19:40:43 GMT
You can bet that even if de lasalle doesn't run full-speed live scrimmages, i'll bet everything that they do a TON of live every day tackling drills.....
CHD, i'd encourage you to spend a ton of time reading the other forums on this board to learn some basic terminology & techniques and volunteer to be an asst coach this coming season. Even if your work schedule doesn't permit you to make it to every practice, i am sure your new coaches would be able to make use of you as your schedule permits (especially if your son is going to move into a more recreational league as you have talked about). That way you have an inside view of what they are teaching, why they are teaching it and a good platform to suggest changes that you see that may need to be made (ie more emphasis on individual technique work than team scrimmage time as seems to be the case in your son's spring program). Additionally, you'll find your enthusiasm for learning the finer points of teaching technique will most likely rub off on your son and may spur him to develop a true passion to learn and excel at this great game.
Good luck. Hope your fall season is an enjoyable one for you both.
Luvdemlinemen, I was thinking the same thing about De LaSalle; they must be doing some heavy duty tackling drills during the week if they never scrimmage at full speed.
I'm going to take your suggestion and check and see if I can help out with the rec league; I can find time to be an assistant coach but will need a lot of guidance from the HC. I'd have to help with my son's team, and I'm no fan of nepotism, but I think I can be objective; after all, I'll already admit that he's a low-skilled player, but I do think he may have an upside with proper encouragement.
Coaches, tonight the team was running what I'd call a toss sweep. I did not see the practice, but heard that the tailback continuously fumbled the pitch and the offense was getting mauled. All of this at full speed, and with no prior reps with the QB practicing pitching to the tailback. I really don't understand the staff's approach. Also, what about the poor back's morale? He must feel awful.
At the same time, I have to give them credit. The team only lost one game as a 6th grade unit last Fall, and played in the league championship game, losing to the team that had beaten them during the season. Maybe the coaching style I've been describing in here is the norm for this particular league and the team losses no ground to the competition by spending so much time scrimmaging?
On an odd note, last year's 7th grade team only won one game, after being champs as 6th graders.
During the season they scouted their opponents and had the 2nd team D mimic the opponent's D, and the second team O would mimic the opponent's O during game week scrimmages. I was impressed by their scouting, and was surprised that it was done at the 6th grade level.
I rested my case when you said that the coaches took 2-3 minutes between plays so they could explain assignments...that just plain sounds dumb. im a big believer in "walk before you run"...so, to me, you bring a white board to practice, sit the kids down, chalk the plays and teach the blocking rules (my guess, your kid doesnt have any blocking rules), then you break into groups, the backfield works on footwork, landmarks, exchanges and timing, the oline works on blocking fronts and stunts, repping their new rules, bird doggin and learning how to open the holes...and then the team will come togther and work out the plays in slow motin, half speed, full speed on air, then against bags (fit and freeze is good)....sigh.....anyhow, theres more than one way to skin the same cat, many successful coaches beat the daylights out of their kids, but usually, a smart coach at least wants his offense to gain some confidence in his offense before the defense just tears into them. me, i have a very small roster and we dont scrimmage live most of the time because we go half line alot...we do alot of "thud", live blocking and just hit and wrap, we can get in alot more reps this way since we can quick whistle and dont have to pile and unpile...
As an interested observer to this thread, I am taking notice of a disturbing trend that is developing. This is for the original parent who initiated this post:
You say you did not see last night's practice but heard about it. The obvious person you heard about it from would be your son, correct? Assuming this is true, I really hate to see your son coming home with derogatory reports about the coaches who are running the practices as that is a cancer on a football team! That type of behaviour leads to nothing more than total team discension before the season even begins. Now, please understand me and what I am saying here; I am in no way defending the staff, they may be totally unqualified to coach the team, that is not the point that I am trying to make here. The real point is ( and I say this as a well qualified coach with 41 years of coaching experience at different levels) I think that perhaps in the midst of your good intentions for your son, you are making a very serious mistake in his developement. That very serious mistake is the error of letting him vent his feelings about the ineptness of the coaches, and you being sympathetic to his cause as many a good father has fallen prey to. You have to realize that as a not too skilled player at this point, the coaches are looking out for your son and trying to get him ready to contribute to the team as his talent improves. As I put in my original post to you, the coaches are not, in all probability the best trained at this point in their coaching careers, BUT THEY ARE STILL THE COACHES AND TO BE RESPECTED FOR THEIR POSITION BY EVERY PLAYER ON THE TEAM, NOT TO BE THE SUBJECT OF THEIR VENTINGS, AS WELL AS, THAT OF PARENTS. If they are as bad as you indicate, and your admittedly not a coach yourself but willing to learn, your idea of offering to help in any way you can is a GREAT IDEA TO ME. That way, you can see first hand if they are mishandling the kids or whatever. If they are like the majority of youth coaches, I think you will soon discover they are good men and are trying their best to help the kids, not hurt them in any way. Whatever course you decide to take, make your son cognizant of the fact that talking about the skill level of the coaching staff is just flat counterproductive to the entire team, and he needs to suck it up and get with the commitment he made to the team when he first joined to do all he could to help make them a winner. If he is really serious about being a player, it will help him to learn this life lesson immensely and he will only be better off for it, IMO.
Coach Easton
J.C. EASTON<BR>HEAD COACH<BR>GA TIGERS FOOTBALL<BR>PROFESSIONAL MINOR LEAGUE
ADDED THOUGHT: Another disturbing trend I am noticing on this thread is that of COACHES BAD MOUTHING OTHER COACHES THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW, BUT ARE BASING THEIR THOUGHTS ON WHAT THEY ARE HEARING. Coaching is a FRATERNITY, A BROTHERHOOD and brothers don't bad mouth brothers! I take certain posts that have appeared to me to be nothing more than an attempt to show "superior" attitudes by other youth coaches. THAT DOESN'T WORK IN THE BROTHERHOOD.
Coach Easton
J.C. EASTON<BR>HEAD COACH<BR>GA TIGERS FOOTBALL<BR>PROFESSIONAL MINOR LEAGUE
Whoa, Coach Easton. I can see why you might think I'm allowing my son to vent about the coaches, but that is not the case. When I was a kid, my parents had bad attitudes and vented to me about coaches and encouraged me to do the same. I have vowed not to be like them and I know very well the consequences of such behavior.
I started this thread simply wondering if our DL coach was wrong to threaten the OL as he did. I actually thought we had a good staff fundamentally speaking because the team did well last year. However, the many replies on here got me to wondering if the staff is coaching poorly. My most recent comment about fumbled pitchouts did not come from my son complaining. I asked him how practice went last night, and specifically if they ran any new plays in scrimmage. He told me they were running toss sweeps, and I asked if they ran 'em at full speed or started out slow; then I asked whether the plays were successful. I was basically doing detective work on the sly because of the comments I've read here. Three days ago, I wouldn't have given it a second thought if I saw them running plays at full speed with no walk-throughs beforehand.
The only time the boy has ever vented to me was when the DL coach threatened to have the OL pounded for the missed block. I told him at the time I would have probably said the same thing, that coach was just trying to shake them up, etc. When he got harassed at school the next day by his teammates for allegedly missing the block, I figured out that team unity was being obstructed allright; by the coach himself.
Please excuse my interfereing in a discussion that I had no place being a part off. It won't happen again. Sincere apology offered, no reply necessary.
Sincerely In Football, Rev.J.C.(coach) Easton
J.C. EASTON<BR>HEAD COACH<BR>GA TIGERS FOOTBALL<BR>PROFESSIONAL MINOR LEAGUE
Coach Easton your postings were quite welcome and I valued them highly. I see no reason for you to apologize to me. My posts were somewhat vague and it is easy to see how you could reach the conclusions you did. You defended team unity and that is commendable at any level.
This whole thread just sort of grew out of control.
CHD- 1) your son missed his block...someone got hurt ...Im sure your son felt bad enough. IM not sure it was his fault based on what you posted "He's not very good at this point and has been moving around. "...how long has he been at guard before having to face the 7th graders on defense?
2) your sons coach threatened to use your son as a tackling dummy- bullying and intimidation have no place in teaching/coaching....we are role models, not hypocrits.
3) your sons concern for being bullied and singled out is a precursor to him quitting down the road if it continues. Hes in 6th grade and his passion for the game can come adn go based on his coaches. they must be reminded that hes just a kid...scare tactics? fraternity aside, id be all over this guy if it was my son. 4) while I have had my share of parents complain about what position or how much playing time i give their kid and i personally dont like talking about that stuff, I would be foolish to think that i could scape goat a kid at practice. I applaud you in your efforts to educate yourself and have taken notice that it was ME not YOU who used the "dumb" in description of the aparant coaching tactics being used. Now, keep in mind, in coaching there are always trends...on year the trendy thing is limiting contact, the next its killing each other...whatver. as i said before, more than one way to skin the same cat.
5) since this is a forum, my opinion is that you should make MORE of an effort to observe the TEACHING going on at practice...If you notice an absense of teaching, you might consider the long term effect of leaving your son on a team where he might continue to be bullied/harrassed (by both coaches and players aparantly...did you notice, when the coach singled out your son, the other players jumped right in?!) ...more later... 6) and for future reference, I wouldnt get too "impressed" by wins and losses ...we all play to win, but teaching the game and developing a life long passion for it is far more valuable. I have seen first hand many "youth champions" that never play a down past the 8th grade.
7) ok, im back, had to field a phone call there...now, im not advocating your son quit or switch teams or whatever....but instead I am thinking that you must advocate for your child in a way to make sure that he is given an opportunity to learn the game without ridicule or harrassment. if you are in attendance, adn even video taping practice maybe you and his coach will be able to show him on film where he is making errors or has room to improve. This is just me...I played for a complete maniac in high school who would take part in the hazing and that sort of stuff that went on. I approach coaching with a fierce intensity but also as a teacher. I think anyone in my fraternity should do the same.
This thread has grown long and the facts are getting muddied somewhat. The coach did not actually single out my son, he called out the entire OL. He said each of them would be "tackling dummies" if the QB got hurt again. The result of his outburst was that other kids tried to pin it on my son the next day at school. He held his ground but got real mad at his teammates. That made me question whether the coach's methods were dividing the team.
I would have had a very different take on the whole matter if my son had been singled out by the coach, as I think any parent would. I'd be talking to him instead of you folks.
We played for this team last year and we decided he'd go to Spring drills this year as more of a training camp exercise than anything else. We didn;t think we'd be with this team again next Fall. He will be playing on the local rec league. Hopefully, there will be more playing time there because the teams are smaller. I think the boy has a chance to be a fairly good player up through high school if he can get with an organization that motivates him.
There were a lot of problems last year between parents and this coaching staff, mostly because the team didn't substitute hardly at all, even in blowouts. Over half of the players on the team rarely saw the field. Things got so bad that new policies were put in place this Spring that prevent parents from speaking directly to the coaches. Now, complaints must be taken to a board. Personally, I severed all ties to the program after a preseason scrimmage last Fall against a rival school in which a lot of players didn't get to play a down. It was a big to-do at the High School stadium and the boys were all excited, only to stand around doing nothing for a 6-quarter scrimmage. My son was not one of them; he did get to play. But I thought the coaches did an injustice to those other kids.
The team makes it clear that they don't guarantee playing time, but they also say they will evaluate your son after Spring drills and suggest he play elsewhere if he does not appear ready for this level of competition. I was led to believe laqst year that he'd get to play last Fall. He was a 2nd team LB. They keep about 35 kids from the Spring and play about 15. I'm convinced that many of the kids are on the team solely to raise revenue for new equipment sheds, etc. It costs about $450 between Spring drills and the season, plus another $100 mandatory booster's fee.
I don't like it when parents criticize coaches. I quit attending after that opening scrimmage last year because, frankly, I knew I'd end up with the group of parents that were screaming at the staff when we were up 24-0 with 3 minutes left and the starters were still in. It was because of those kinds of confrontations that the coaching staff is now completely out of bounds for parents and parents are forced to sign a code of conduct with suspension penalties spelled out. Maybe not a bad idea.
Oh ok, well, in any case, I wish you and your son the best of luck. I hope he finds his nich with the team and begins to blossom into the kind of player you think he can become. Its nice that you are so supportive. Let me know how the boy makes out. coachcalande@comcast.net
Post by Coach Beergut on May 21, 2005 15:46:16 GMT
CHD,
First, I would point out that George O'Leary, former Ga Tech head coach now at Army, infamous for his resume editing that got him fired from Notre Dame, was the target of a lawsuit when he did just what this coaching threatened to do: An OL miss a block, he had 3 DL lineup and tackle the OL, "teaching him how it felt" to be the RB and get hit by DL on the loose. The OL was injured after this "lesson", and he went on to sue O'Leary and the school for his injuries, mental suffering, etc. I can't remember how the case ended, but I remember thinking that O'Leary was an idiot for doing that. You don't teach a player anything by having his teammates brutalize him, except maybe that you're not fit to be a coach. O'Leary is not having much success so far at Army, currently. Second, I would have contacted that coach about his comment; threats are not an effective teaching method. I wouldn't jump all over him, just ask him if he made the comment, and give him a chance to apologize. You say you might have made the same comment, I wouldn't have. I'd make them run laps or do up-downs or something else for punishment. The fact is, I don't see why the DL coach is yelling at the OL for not doing their job. The OL coach should be talking to his kids; the DL coach should worry about his own responsibility. Third, as far as your kid goes, I'd sit down and talk to him about other positions he wants to play, besides QB. You meniotned on th eother thread that he might play TE, but you said he can't catch the ball well. Well, you can teach how to catch the ball and how to block. I'd get a 50 gallon garbage can from a hardware store, put in a few sand bags to give it some weight, and have him practice coming out of a stance, getting low and driving up into it, and blocking it using proper technique. As for learning to catch the ball, start out playing catch with him with a tennis ball. Have him move five, ten, then fifteen yards away and continue playing catch. Then, have him practice coming off the line, running a route, cutting, and turning around to catch the tennis ball. Then, put it all together, and have him come out of a stance, hit the trash can in a short block, release, then turn around and catch the tennis ball. Every time he runs the drill correctly, praise him. If he gets it ten times in a row correct, move on to the next drill. Keep it fun, and reward him for good workouts, take him out for pizza or something like that. Catching a tennis ball barehanded is a lot harder than catching a football. After running the drills with a tennis ball, the football will look as big as a beach ball coming to him, and his dropsies will be cured. Just a suggestion.
As far as aggressiveness goes, that can be taught, too. Tell him to picture the one thing he hates or fears the most every time he hits that trash can. It is a great way to overcome his fear, and a healthy way to deal with anger.
Thanks Coach Beergut, I'm going to try the drills you mentioned. They make a lot of sense to me.
Also, I'm in GA and I remember the O'Leary story; the other guy is right, in that O'Leary is at UCF and Ross is at Army. I think O'Leary spent a year as an NFL assistant after the Notre Dame issue. A lot of us down here thought his success was more attributable to Ralph Friedgen than anything else.
Also, not to jump on you or anything, but I never let a kid touch weights until he is at minimum 13 yrs old, better if they start at 14. Don't let him max out until he is 16-17; there is no point before that time. If he is only doing sets of 5, he is using too much weight anyway. You don't want to close his growth plates. Just have him do pushups, if he can do sets of 100, make him put his feet on a chair and do them from an incline. At his age, strength isn't going to be the determining factor, the more aggressive player generally wins out. At 12, big kids are still taught to not hit the littler kids, so they're not as aggressive as they could be. That's why a smaller kid with a violent disposition can be a great player in youth football.
Agreed, Coach. I've been having second thoughts about the weights anyway. I've seen more folks against using them at this age that in favor of, because of growth plate issues. We'll stick with push-ups and sit-ups for now.
What about high-rep squats with no weights? Are they useful at this age?
Finally, this summer, we can choose between a local football camp (probably a bit above average in quality) and a speed/agility camp. I think coordination and first-step quickness are his biggest weaknesses right now. If you take the assumption that my evaluation is correct, do you opt for speed/agility camp? That's where I'm leaning. Also, he likes basketball a lot right now and I may be able to motivate him more by mentioning that the camp will be useful for both sports.
On the issue of weightless squats, I can't see the harm in them, but they are not necessary at that age.
As far as camps go, ask your son to which sport he enjoys playing most right now, basketball or football. If he says football, send him to the football camp. They'll teach him proper technique, and he'll get better as a player, which will increase his enjoyment of the sport. If he says basketball, send him to the agility camp; it'll help his play in both sports, and his coordination will improve. At this age, I wouldn't be worried about his coordination, that'll come once he gets comfortable with his body after he stops growing.
this past year was my first year coaching little league football, and i must admit i started out just like that coach your son has. making threats to my players to run them or have them stand back and get hit, all this in order to "get them going". i quickly realized this was the wrong approach to take. i was coaching a group of 8-10 year olds. with half of my team being first year players with no real knowledge of the game, i knew i had to find a way to get my players to respond to what i was trying to teach them without scaring them to death. i went to my old high school and i observed practice. there i saw that even at the high school level there is still A WHOLE LOT of teaching going on, and i had to slow my approach down. once i did this, i had these kids doing things i never thought they could do. i had them running the option, counters, traps, sweeps, pass plays, etc. we could run these plays out of different formations, the I, the bone, single back, shotgun, multiple receiver sets. i helped take a team from last to first in one year. our defense was #1 in the league giving up only 3 touchdowns and 6 first downs in 9 games. our offense averaged 30+ points a game, but the most impressive thing is that i managed to get all of the parents involved. every single parent was at every single practice all the time, and they all got involved, mom's, dad's, sisters, cousins, older brothers, they all got involved. the reason i think this was the most important of our accomplishments is because without support, any time will nose dive straight into the ground. that is why some towns decorate the streets during football season, and why NFL teams spend so much on merchandising. they want their fans to be able to show support, and at a young age, the most support should come from a parent. it is my suggestion to you, as many other coaches have done, to get in contact with the coach and tell him you want to help out. trust me, a volunteer little league coach with a family and bills to pay appreciates any help he can get.
don't worry about what you don't know. if you had to know what you dont' know you would've learned it by now
I applaude your approach to coaching. I have been President of our youth league going on 3 years now and it never fails, we have one or two coaches who want to relive their high school days by coaching with that same philosophy. It simply cannot be done that way with youth between the ages of 6-12 especially when it is their first time to play football. There have been many times where our coaches run off half of their teams before they realize that "Gee, it might be my coaching that is making my players quit." In reality, they have to be told this by a parent or an observing Board member. Our league philosophy is to teach the game of football, but to make it as fun as possible so that the kid's will get to experience the game before they get to the reality of Jr and Sr high football where the most talented kids play most. Our league has also installed a minimum play rule to guarantee that even the least talented players in our league play at one point of a game. Our #1 goal is provide the game in fun, safe, but competitive manner. We don't allow teams to "stackup their roster" by holding a draft to distribute our talent so that the competition will not tilt to one team.
In the case of the original posting, I feel like the OL should take responsiblity as a team. As with past experience, you can have the greatest athletes on the field, but if they do not have the spirit of teamwork which includes taking responsibility for missed assignments. Players reaction should have been "We had a breakdown, let's get it together so this won't happen again." If I were the OL coach , I would have spoken to the line about teamwork and what it means to not point fingers at your teammates. Pointing fingers and playing the blame game can generally make for a long season for any team.
Jeffrey Magnia
CYFL Prez
Jeffrey Magnia
former CYFL Prez
-----------------------------------------------magniaj@gmail.com