Stretch or Outside Zone Help!

I would also like to know the path the lineman take on the inside vs. the outside.

Please go into further detail about your BOB, I understand the concept but need more information to really understand it. Covered stay on that man, uncovered go to 2nd level?
Thanks

TigerOne,
That is a pretty good explaination for me. I was having trouble this year getting movement from our O-line. I taught the inside zone to be more vertical and with true double teams to LB's, more vertical push. I told the back to hid behind the stacks and find the path.
I then taught the outside zone to be more, as you say "next man", I used "reach the next man". I taught them that the outside zone was more one one one, while trying to create an horizontial wall for our back. I taught the back it was a race to the inside leg of the TE, if color was heavy inside the TE he went outside, if it was heavy outside the TE he went inside. Of course I had the H-Back leading so his path was good to follow as well. What do you think about this description.

TigerOne,
Could you explain the overall goal of the inside and outside. The inside, is to create vertical push, if we could all the way down field. I told our o line do not come off until the Lb is even with the DL. With the outside zone do we want to run them to the side line of stale mate them on the LOS.

Coach,

You are trying to get the D line on the move. That way you can take advantage of the creases caused by their own movement.

JC

Coach,
You've got it. The vertical push, your straight ahead drive blocking for the most part and on the next man over your moving them laterally, all with the same intent. That intent is to take advantage of your opponents movement and create running creases for your RB.

JC

Black Fly,

What would you ask for the tapes you have mentioned above (cash price)?
My email: jerryeaston1@aol.com or coacheaston@hotmail.com

JC

Coach,
My personal feelings, on the HS level, is that you should pretty much pick one scheme and stay with it. Unless you have some pretty savvy kids up front, when you try to combine schemes, most often your not real satisfied with the results. I would be more interested in finding out, after months devoted to zone blocking, why he felt led to can it so quickly! All HC's are different, and I'm sure he has his reasons for doing so. However, to me it seems the best choice would have been to see exactly what was causing the results to not be what he wanted, after all those hours installing it, and go ahead and correct those areas and go on, rather than just chucking the whole scheme and time invested. Just my opinion. As to your specific question of this post, I think you could probably tie the two schemes together alright, just don't prefer that as I stated earlier.

JC

I love the iso, but your friend has a sound play also and I run it often! Like I stated before, training the backs to break old habits can pose a problem, if you let it. Good coaching can cover a multitude of sin, if you get my drift.


JC

Coach,
It is easy to discern why your friend is a winner. He is correct 100%. The H back lead accomplishes the same exact thing. You back up the inside play with an outside play for the very reason your friend mentions. As an old QB coach for a lot of years now, I don't like the idea of running my QB into the heart of the defense though. Those QB's take years to develop and they are of no use to you over on the sidelines in a body cast. We all look at things differently at times and there is certainly nothing wrong with that. If he has a QB who can take the hits, go for it! I posted tihs earlier, but I don't think it went through.

JC

Coach,

Thats a good thing, that your enthusiastic and believe in what your running. There is no other way,imo.
Good luck the rest of the way!

JC

Bill,

Where you been Coach? Been missing your posts of late? Saw your post to blackfly, my little girls are 42,40, and 35. My son is 34. It went quickly didn't it?

JC

YES! Didn't you say you had the Russ Grimm tape on the Counter/Power Series? He walks thru the steps in his lecture, comparing the first three steps in each block. The 6" lead step with the NEAR foot - on the ANGLE you find the man on; the second step beyond the first spep (& getting it down FIRST so UOU initiate contact); ETC. Step through it yourself & you will see what I mean. You are always coming off the baqll on an (VARYING) ANGLE to the inside or outside, & rarely straight ahead.

ALL these steps are explained in Grimm's, Hanifan's & Bugel's tapes!

This is very difficult to explain without walking thru it with you, showing cutups, etc. The Grimm tape is worth EVERY PENNY they ask. This man not only coached it (under the greats like Bugel & Hanifan) - he PLAYED it as well as any Guard ever did.

They DID NOT Drop Step or bucket step. They lead step. The example gave on tape was an uncovered man inside zone blocking with a covered teammate to his outside, & an uncovered man down blocking on counter/power with a covered teammate to his inside. You take your FIRST 6" lead step AT the aimimg point on the DLM - which if you walk thru this is almost identically the SAME ANGLE OF DEPARTURE in both cases except in reverse. Then of course the second step which mustgo beyond the first step & be placed down quickly (if DLM catches you with the second step "in the air" - HE WINS). Then the natural third step that follows.

He didn't make a big case out of all of this - it was a simple illustration that you work on the SAME initial steps in zoning & counter/power. Both he & Bugel would tell you that they spent most all of their time coming off the ball on these angles to the inside & outside; pulling; & pass pro.

After you view his tape - let me know what you think.

PS: As to penetration when blocking to the inside - they had these coaching points.
#1 - close the splits to the extent that you can get the job done (as close as 6" 0r 12" IF NECESSARY).
#2 - if man is a known penetrator & you are working alone (inside teammate NOT in combination setting him up for you)- you can change your aiming point from near hip to IN FRONT (old reverse shoulder technique). THEY ACTUALLY TAUGH THIS.

PPS: You talked about the "punch technique". They used this on BOTH down blocking counter * power, & stepping out on zone blocking. The following from an article is good:

Bugel's current and former players believe his success stems from masterful motivational skills, communication ability and teaching acumen. Returning Redskins say they have improved markedly through Bugel's emphasis on hand techniques to hinder defenders.

Last season, Thomas, a gifted athlete who is agile despite his 6-foot-5, 306-pound frame, relied on a flawed blocking method -- blocking wide, with his hands several inches apart. It left Thomas' chest open to defenders, making him more vulnerable. A lineman has more control over the defender by keeping his hands close together inside the chest area -- "tight hands," Bugel explained -- before punching out.

The Redskins also have incorporated one of Bugel's trademark techniques: the arm pump, which is used in run blocking. The lineman cocks, or pumps, his arms to his sides before forcefully pushing upward -- "like a fork lift," Bugel said -- into the defender's chest area. It diminishes the chances of holding and keeps the lineman from being passive.

"He wants us to hit 'em in the chest and make their heartbeat stop," Thomas said. "It stuns them at the line because the defense is taught to hit you in your chest, so it's better if you hit them first."

Bugel used imaginary handcuffs, teaching his players through repetition and constant reminders. Thomas, a sixth-year veteran, had previously known a similar technique but stopped using it last season because it wasn't emphasized. Samuels, who is coming off perhaps his worst NFL season, picked up damaging tendencies in recent years -- dropping his head and using his hands improperly.