Tackle PUll on Dart

Coach,

we use a skip pull technique which allows the OT to keep his shoulders square to the LOS and see his target the entire time. The first step of the skip pull is with the oppisite foot, as you would if you were doing karioka. (i.e. if the OT is pulling left his first step would be with his right foot behind him, then the 2nd step would be with the playside foot.) This will allow the lineman to be in a good crossover run technique.

We tell the OT to hug the double team and key the v of the neck on the inside of the LBer. We would prefer to kick the Lber out and have the back stick it up into A gap.

JD

If you want the BSOT to block the DE if he tries to run under him I would drop step and crossover. If the OT reads the inside slant by the DE now he will have his weight on his inside foot to rock pressure back ont he DE. If he gets caught with his backside foot behind him in the skip pull he is SOL.

Whats your opionion on that tog?

JD

I dont think it is AS good a way to get the tackle pull going as the kick/carioca step, but it gets done what we want done for both while keeping it simple.

Our answer to that with the zone t since we are rotating up to the backside lb and need someone up on the pslb is to just run the qb and have the back block the backside de. (i would like to run some zone up to the pslb, but that is another story)

If we are running enough jets from the gun then we think they shouldn't be able to run this stunt or we will hook their psde easily and have our back up on the linebacker over the top. We can also run the zone t into the jet or away from the jet keeping the qb read, or just give it to him.

When running the jet where we just give it to him, we call it rocket or lazer, this sift technique is essentially what I want them to do. If the bsde doesn't really engage then we can get upfield. if he engages at all, then we cut him off with a nasty cut and roll.

On the zone-t and counter gt with the same pull steps for the ot, this should help keep them from playing this game. The answer we have come up with, since we do not rotate up to the pslb on our zone stuff is to just give it to the qb and have the back block the guy.

I don't know if that all made sense. It does to us when we look at it on paper though.

ltc

we don't run zone read out of gun like most people do. we rotate up to the backside linebacker
this is because of the offense we evolved out of.

since we are zoning up to the bslb we do not have anyone for the pslb, so we just tackle pull the bsot square up into the first hole past the center like most people do on dart. We run dart too, we just run the zone t as a way to help our ot's reach on the jet stuff we do. We also help them with counter gt into the jet as well. Anyhow, on the jet give, we have to try and reach the psde with out psot. We have to get outside leverage or at least ride him down the line and stay engaged as long as possible by running feet. On the zone t we take a similar step with our playside foot, the good thing here is that the step can be more aggressive since we don't really have to reach the psde. we are just trying to wash him out as the hole is inside.

The standard read stuff backside applies for the backs. If the qb is running it, the back blocks back. If the rb is getting the mesh, then we are reading it option style. Then it just turns inot lead with the bsot leading on the pslb. Sometimes this will turn into a kickout, but we teach the bsot to stay square just like on counter gt to get up in the first hole past the center that he can and find work. We use a cloudy clear concept with them. Tell them they are the rb and to find a hole. IF they are met in the hole then we have some power to do something about it. If the linbacker fills too fast and we kick him out, then it is a simple open of the hips and run right through him.

I would like to be able to run basic zone rotating up to the pslb, but we have enough other stuff in that I really don't want to confuse the ol with another concept or scheme. We run jets out of the gun with bunch passing game stuff off of how that ends up when we are just faking it so that is another way to get the ball out there. Add the jets to the zone-t and it tends to hold linebackers. The back can go every which way. Sometimes there are three people going in 3 different directions. Sometimes we get full flow for the qb sweep off of the jet. It is just a good scheme in my mind to mess with those linebackers and de.

against a 3-3 stack we fold it with the psot and the guard. We call it a TOG block. Tackle over guard.
then we still just pull up through with the backside tackle.

the initial aiming point or key for the runner is the psg area
if there is daylight , go
if there is any doubt, be patient and pick up the pulling ot out of periph and then press his heals just like traditional lead play

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Originally posted by: longtigercat
tog, thanks for the explanation. I know this may not be exactly right, but could I say that you are running what we would call dart up front for both the dart and zone t? I'm trying to visualize this. For our standard zone play, we may end up "pushing" the whole defense to the playside if their LB's are on a "fast flow" track and create the cutback lane. For the zone t, you're not looking so much for this push and cutback - maybe more for a playside seam or a bounce to the outside. And also, is the playside tackle's block the same for both your dart and zone t. Meaning is he basically kicking out on both, or is he basing and possibly stretching the block on the d end for the zone t?

I'm thinking this can be very effective (zone t) in a five man front (if they cover all of your offensive linemen because it essentially turns the zone into base blocks across the front, unable to account for the playside LB). I'm also thinking that this would help when teams have their backside backer slow play the zone in anticipation for our qb dart (we've had some teams flip their backers based on where our RB lines up).

I saw some tape two years ago on Martinsburg in West Virginia (they were very good - we were scouting their opponent) and I'm now thinking they ran something similar to your zone t.

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Against a playside 3 tech, our og is supposed to step into him and take him wherever he wants to go. So we do get some cutback plays.
The vertical push part of it creates vertical seams within a defense. This came from a 1back,two te style zone/stretch/counter philosophy
so there is a melding of ideas here where we do get a more traditional zone look playside. IE: against a 4-2 with 2 techs we will have what turns into a full zone look between the center and the psog with a fast call. But since we are reading the bsde we can still get another man up through the hole for the pslb. Of the two vertical push schemes I like the rotating up to the bslb one better as you don't have to have as good of athletes to do it in my mind. If the linebacker is coming over the top, then all the psol has to do is come off a little in front of him and chop that guy in half. If the linebacker is coming underneath, that is an easy block for the bsol if he can see it (which is an issue that we stress) all he has to do is fall off the double team and get a chunk of the guy.

For the psot on zone-t we are stepping at the de hard, making it look like we are trying reach him, but in reality just trying to drive him out. We do this to help our ot's on the jet reaches they must be able to do. Basically like what you said. I tell them to take a crappy reach step and then try to just widen him however you can. Ride and run. Or inside position and drive out, however it happens. Just stay on the guy.

For 5 down guys, that means they would have 7 in the box, we are throwing it. if they are a 50 front then we will go trips one side to remove an end or run jet to bump them over. But yes in theory we could run the zone-t against this look by reading the backside de and getting our bsot up on the pslb.



On dart-our psot is pass setting and kicking out the psde by having him run upfield like a stupid de will do.


We line up our back on either side and can run it to him or the qb from either side. We also run jets that help screw with those linebackers and help force them to play more vanilla.

against an even 4-2 look up front that is pretty much how it will happen.
the fast call by the psg tells the center to step flatter than normal to protect the bsg's backside gap
the psg needs to step flatter than normal to protect the playside gap.

this is not that big a deal against 2 techs that are big and fat
against smaller 4.5 guys that can get into the gap before your ol move it is, that way you don't really want to step at them as it closes the angle off for you to get a peice of them, step flat almost L step to just get into the gap

for the backside guard we tell him to take a slide takeover step and protect the playside gap. If he is athletic enough to fire out at the guy and not whiff we let him. If he is a big goomba (as JD learned me a new word) i just want him to get in the guy's way as long as possible, not worried about penetration or movement here. Just don't want someone running free.

for the psot, we use the this to help the reach on jets and vice versa

it is a good way to help a subpar athlete at OT succeed

no problem ltc,
i love talkin this stuff

this kind of stuff is great for smaller ol

it allows double teams, and it allows smaller guys to just stay on their guy,

you don't need what I refer to as "ass kickers" that will knock the other team back
i wish i had those

we just came to the conclusion that the best players will be on defense and we will get the leftovers

our leftovers need to be able to block their studs

vertical push does that

being in the gun and running the stuff we do does that too we think, just stay in their way
stay on them
run your feet

Well, the zone-t is essentially the same thing as dart, you could probably just tell the psot to change it up whenever he wants to and just call it one thing. That way it would still be 5 "plays" as it were.
All a matter of how you look at it.

What other kind of stuff do you guys do?

Anyone ever though of trying a tackle trap ?

Trap the one tech with the bst. Call it and then run it to the nearest dt to the center. REad the end that he is pulling off of like zone read.

All other ol just zone the same way? Just leave the 1? Against a 4-2 with 3's and 1's the center would then just step to the 1 and then release, the psg would release up to the pslb. Back action would be the same as zone read, or our zone-t read play. Instead of reading the psg area though, the back could read the a gap defender and then hit it off the frontside of the kickout or behind it, depending on daylight or not.

This seems like a good idea, since 1 tech's hardly ever get trapped. It is a similar action that gun teams run in the backfield anyway. If you are going to add something, an inside play of some sort would be a good add. Fairly easy for the ol too. Just show them where to go.

Just thinking outside the box

where did it end up hitting?
when looking at it on paper, it looks like it might even hit towards where the pulling ot came from
or did you just teach the back to trust the a gap that was going to be made by the kickout in a gap?

I know dart is best run to the 1 tech but could you run it to the 3tech and have the Guard and Tackle fold it to pin the 3tech and not allow him to work into the hole? Everything else would be the same right? In our terms this would be a deuce jack.