QB Read Play

History10
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Posts: 56

QB Read Play Jan 11, 2006 7:56:03 GMT

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Post by History10 on Jan 11, 2006 7:56:03 GMT

We are expecting to have a really good athlete at QB next year (3 year Varsity Starter) and we want to put him in the Shotgun and make him a bigger part of our offense. We think we can accomplish this by running the Trap/Read play out of Shotgun where the QB has an option to either give the ball to the FB, with a Guard or Tackle or both leading the play or pulling and replacing a Defensive End that tries to chase the play. I have a few questions about this play.
I've seen this run mostly as a trap play where either the Guard and/or Tackle pull playside and kick out. The first question is this, is it better to trap the 3 tech or the DE? I've seen it in books both ways. I know trapping the 3 would be a lot faster trap, and the FB would be going downhill NOW. Also I've seen both the G/T pull, sometimes one or the other. I've read where some teams that like the QB to pull it prefer to pull the Tackle, rather than the Guard, as this is a better way of getting the DE to chase, thus getting a pull from the QB.
Secondly, is it necessary to leave someone like the backside Wingback/Wide Receiver to block the remaining Outside LB/SS/FS/ Hole player or is it better to option him. We've looked at both. We feel if the object is to get the QB to run the ball, we'd rather block the remaining defender and have the QB run the ball to score.
So in summary: Is it better to trap the 3 tech or End, Is it better to pull G or T or both, do you need someone to block the remaining defender in the box or is it better to Option the remaining defender in the box? Looking for any and all suggestions, especially since we haven't run this offense before. Thanks a lot, Darren

sls
Senior Member

Posts: 211

QB Read Play Jan 11, 2006 8:48:25 GMT

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Post by sls on Jan 11, 2006 8:48:25 GMT

First of all, I think this is a great offense and your Qb will love it. If he is a good runner and you teach him to always throw some type of uncovered concept and be able to check to it, I feel that this offense is almost unstopable (my favoritims showing through). Make them press you in spread and your QB can run all day! My question for you is what kind of a team are you?

We were an I optin team before moving to the Gun. We did not run zone and do not run Zone read now. we run ISV, Midline, speed, and Tackle trap for our main gun runs.

We run the tackle trap for one main reason. the blocking is exactly the same for all of the lineman as on ISV, excpet for the tackle that pulls. This was alos pretty much our ISV blocking from when were an I team. we will also run tackle trap switch, which becomes likea QB counter off of the Tackle trap. fake the Fb to the unblocked DE, QB plants and follows the trap.

We also do run some FB trap with the guard pulling. It is quicker ad has been a good play but it is a play we put in later because the bloking is different from our base play.

we leave the OLB unblocked and pitch off of him. this past year we were a pass firt team, therefore the OLb was always pressed on our slot and the QB ran the ball most of the time.

History10
Member

Posts: 56

QB Read Play Jan 11, 2006 9:09:56 GMT

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Post by History10 on Jan 11, 2006 9:09:56 GMT

Thanks for all of your input. Obviously you've run this type of offense before. Here's a BIG question for you. Do you think you have to be a Pass First team to run this? I don't think we can be successful throwing the ball more than 10-15 times a game, and when we want to, not 3rd and 15. The main reason I want to study this offense is to highlight a good runner/thrower QB. Seems we can easily spread the defense by formation and open up the running lanes easier than being an I team like we were this year.
Oh, by the way, on the Tackle trap did you trap the 3 tech or the DE(probably a 5 tech)? Very interested to know. Thanks again. Darren

History10
Member

Posts: 56

QB Read Play Jan 11, 2006 9:17:33 GMT

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Post by History10 on Jan 11, 2006 9:17:33 GMT

Ok, I see the error of my ways!! You said the blocking for Tackle Trap was the same as for ISV, so you MUST be trapping the 5. Duh!! Ok. In your Tackle Trap Switch I'm assuminng you are filling for the pulling tackle with the FB and actuallyl pulling the opposite Tackle to lead for the QB. Is this correct. One last thing does the FB have to be opposite the call side all the time, other than running speed option? I saw a post on this site about running Midline. It looked great. They have TE/Wing on the right and Fb on the right also. They blocked Midline rules (Fan Tackle and TE and bring Wing under to Playside Backer/FS). The read was the 3 tech. If the three stayed outside/up the field give to FB, like any midline play. If the 3 tackled or tried to tackle the FB, QB pulled and ran behind the block of the Wing. Great looking play to get the QB running.
One last reason we are looking at this is because, like the Wing - T years ago, no one in our area runs the spread offense and they don't have three filing cabinets of defenses to stop it. I know when my team gets spread out there is only so much you can do without leaving someone totally uncovered. Thanks again. Darren

History10
Member

Posts: 56

QB Read Play Jan 11, 2006 9:49:26 GMT

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Post by History10 on Jan 11, 2006 9:49:26 GMT

To answer your main question, which I somehow skipped over, is that we are primarily an option team. We like Midline, Isv and sometimes OSV. We like the counter game a lot, and I'm mesmerized with running the QB on the counter after faking a play to the opposite way. Do you run any counter plays? With what I have studied so far I can see where either the QB, FB or Wing can run the counter play. What type of counter game could you recommend for the Spread? Thanks again, Darren

sls
Senior Member

Posts: 211

QB Read Play Jan 11, 2006 15:19:20 GMT

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Post by sls on Jan 11, 2006 15:19:20 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by: History10
Thanks for all of your input. Obviously you've run this type of offense before. Here's a BIG question for you. Do you think you have to be a Pass First team to run this? I don't think we can be successful throwing the ball more than 10-15 times a game, and when we want to, not 3rd and 15. The main reason I want to study this offense is to highlight a good runner/thrower QB. Seems we can easily spread the defense by formation and open up the running lanes easier than being an I team like we were this year.
Oh, by the way, on the Tackle trap did you trap the 3 tech or the DE(probably a 5 tech)? Very interested to know. Thanks again. Darren

I do not think you have to be a pass first offense, but I do think that to get the most out of your QB you need to throw enough to make them honor the spread. I believe to get the most from the O you need them to cover you with at least 5. Press man and a FS, then your QB can have a field day. Throw bubble and or uncovered until they press, then 6 in the box and go to town running the ball.

sls
Senior Member

Posts: 211

QB Read Play Jan 11, 2006 15:24:42 GMT

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Post by sls on Jan 11, 2006 15:24:42 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by: History10
Ok, I see the error of my ways!! You said the blocking for Tackle Trap was the same as for ISV, so you MUST be trapping the 5. Duh!! Ok. In your Tackle Trap Switch I'm assuminng you are filling for the pulling tackle with the FB and actuallyl pulling the opposite Tackle to lead for the QB. Is this correct. One last thing does the FB have to be opposite the call side all the time, other than running speed option? I saw a post on this site about running Midline. It looked great. They have TE/Wing on the right and Fb on the right also. They blocked Midline rules (Fan Tackle and TE and bring Wing under to Playside Backer/FS). The read was the 3 tech. If the three stayed outside/up the field give to FB, like any midline play. If the 3 tackled or tried to tackle the FB, QB pulled and ran behind the block of the Wing. Great looking play to get the QB running.
One last reason we are looking at this is because, like the Wing - T years ago, no one in our area runs the spread offense and they don't have three filing cabinets of defenses to stop it. I know when my team gets spread out there is only so much you can do without leaving someone totally uncovered. Thanks again. Darren

We pair our gun runs so that one run goes to the FB sides and one aaway.

These are the plays we pair together.

ISV to FB and Tackle Trap Away

Midline to FB and Speed Away

Toss to and FB trap away.

We use very little TE and even less wing. With a TE we run midline pretty normally. With out a TE we influence with the playside guard and use a short trap on the DE and the playside tackle releases down to the plays Side ILB. The pulling guard stretched the 3 tech.

We run this offense for the smae reason no one else does and te kids love and we now have the most athletes playing that have played in a long time.

sls
Senior Member

Posts: 211

QB Read Play Jan 11, 2006 15:29:07 GMT

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Post by sls on Jan 11, 2006 15:29:07 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by: History10
To answer your main question, which I somehow skipped over, is that we are primarily an option team. We like Midline, Isv and sometimes OSV. We like the counter game a lot, and I'm mesmerized with running the QB on the counter after faking a play to the opposite way. Do you run any counter plays? With what I have studied so far I can see where either the QB, FB or Wing can run the counter play. What type of counter game could you recommend for the Spread? Thanks again, Darren

If you are an option team, get the Demeo Gun Option Tapes or book. We run all of our gun plays just like we would run our option plays from underneath. We do not run the zone read. Our counter game is these. The Tackle Trap Switch is kinda of like a counter another counter is to fake ISV and have the slot run shovel pass the other way. We block it just like the QB trap.

dsqa
Senior Member

Posts: 210

QB Read Play Jan 11, 2006 20:13:27 GMT

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Post by dsqa on Jan 11, 2006 20:13:27 GMT

Great point sls. You have to get the defense to honor your spread. You can throw quick stuff in combination, but you have to throw it, or they will keep 7 in, or near, the box, and cover you with 4 until you show them you can hurt them. The short passing game is just an extension of your running game. Think like that and you won't worry about run to pass ratio as much. You will use screens better, mesh, and the like to keep the defense honoring what you are doing. Good Luck.

Darin Slack
www.quarterbackacademy.com

TIGER ONE
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Posts: 6,423

QB Read Play Jan 16, 2006 13:48:17 GMT

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Post by TIGER ONE on Jan 16, 2006 13:48:17 GMT

Darrin Slack makes a very astute observation in regards to worrying about a pass to run ration, IMO.
Most coaches think in terms of a "BALANCED" OFFENSE ON GAME NIGHT MEANING A PRETTY MUCH EQUAL NUMBER OF RUNS AND PASSES BEING RUN. To me, running a balanced game plan does not mean that at all, but rather it means that I can run WHEN I WANT TO RUN AND I CAN PASS WHEN I WANT TO PASS. If your not going outh there with an aggresive outlook on offense from the git go, don't bother going at all. Just my opinion as always.

Coach Easton

J.C. EASTON<BR>HEAD COACH<BR>GA TIGERS FOOTBALL<BR>PROFESSIONAL MINOR LEAGUE

djtrap2
Member

Posts: 134

QB Read Play Jan 24, 2006 7:49:29 GMT

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Post by djtrap2 on Jan 24, 2006 7:49:29 GMT

sls,

Coach you mentioned throwing uncovereds from the gun. What are some of your uncovered routes that you run from the Gun. I coach a spread offense and we have our uncovered routes from under the center, but being that we are thinking about using more of a Gun package this year, please help me with some of the uncovered routes that you would run. Second question, how many different uncovered routes do you typically have? Third question, does it take a lot of reps to get your QB to get rid of the ball with good quickness? I know we practice it a lot from under the center.

Please get back to me (or anybody else with thoughts on this matter)

DJTrap2

sls
Senior Member

Posts: 211

QB Read Play Jan 24, 2006 8:41:53 GMT

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Post by sls on Jan 24, 2006 8:41:53 GMT

the number 1 thing we did was hitch to the uncovered (more than 6 yds off) outside receiver. #2 was bubble to an uncovered inside receiver. QB can call these at any time. the reps thing kinda depends on the QB, we spent 5 minutes a day with the Qb getting the snap and throwing as fast as he can, we do that now with the Qb in PE. Work on throwing without the laces,told our QB if you are "on" throw without the laces, if it was wet or he was struggling, find the laces.

djtrap2 Member Posts: 134	QB Read Play Jan 25, 2006 10:50:53 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by djtrap2 on Jan 25, 2006 10:50:53 GMT Coach SLS, How deep does your slot run the uncovered bubble when you are in the gun? What is your QB and RB alignment when you are in the gun and running the Zone/Read or when you pull somebody G or T? DJTrap2

sls
Senior Member

Posts: 211

QB Read Play Jan 25, 2006 14:31:02 GMT

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Post by sls on Jan 25, 2006 14:31:02 GMT

We taught the bubble by having the slot open up his shoulders to QB, start to walk backwards at a 45 degree angle until he got the ball and then turn upfield. Once they were comfortable it became natural and fast. Maybe 2 yards deep.

We do not run zone read, we run midline and ISV. In all of our plays including the Tackle Trap, our QB is at 4yards, FB is over the guard at 5yards.

djtrap2
Member

Posts: 134

QB Read Play Jan 26, 2006 5:58:17 GMT

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Post by djtrap2 on Jan 26, 2006 5:58:17 GMT

Coach SLS

What do you do when that OLB or 3-4 END, etc... keeps playing back and forth on your slot with a 2 deep safety look. You know....he'll keep moving to confuse the QB. He'll make the QB think covered, uncovered, covered, uncovered, covered, uncovered, etc....How do you treat this? I know we have trouble with this and we are under the center most of the game.

DJTrap2

sls Senior Member Posts: 211	QB Read Play Jan 26, 2006 8:53:19 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by sls on Jan 26, 2006 8:53:19 GMT Throw bubble when he is down tight, let the slot out run him to the sideline, clock the corner and let the slot make a move on the safety.

sls Senior Member Posts: 211	QB Read Play Jan 26, 2006 8:54:02 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by sls on Jan 26, 2006 8:54:02 GMT Flex you RB a little, let the slot clean out that OLB and run bubble with the RB.

djtrap2
Member

Posts: 134

QB Read Play Jan 26, 2006 10:42:02 GMT

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Post by djtrap2 on Jan 26, 2006 10:42:02 GMT

SLS

I like your idea of throwing to the RB and having your slot crack on the OLB. We ran the RB on swing, but we quick motioned him out there to the bubble, so after we did it a couple of times and had success with it, we had to back off of it because teams were well prepared for it. We also had a couple of routes were we incorporated the swing pass in the route. I never thought of it as an automatic. Interesting!!!

When you say "flex" your RB a little....do you mean widen him out? I know that whenever we ran a route with the RB running a swing pass, we would cheat him out a little bit. Not too much because we didn't want to tip it off. Does it create a problem for you when you check to the uncovered swing pass.....problem being that your RB does not get out to the swing pass quick enough?

DJTrap2

sls Senior Member Posts: 211	QB Read Play Jan 26, 2006 16:54:55 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by sls on Jan 26, 2006 16:54:55 GMT Flex means that our rb moves from being over the guard to over the FB.

djtrap2
Member

Posts: 134

QB Read Play Jan 27, 2006 4:46:41 GMT

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Post by djtrap2 on Jan 27, 2006 4:46:41 GMT

SLS

Thanks for your response again!

Sorry I don't follow what you mean by FB. We are a Run N Shoot team so when we are in the Shot Gun we normally have our RB aligned on the Outside leg of the Guard. Is what you are referring to as FB.....is that the same as a Tight Slot (1x1) from the Offensive Tackle??? Or do you just mean Fullback?

DJTrap2

sls Senior Member Posts: 211	QB Read Play Jan 27, 2006 13:02:19 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by sls on Jan 27, 2006 13:02:19 GMT Our FB is our 1 back in spread.

jbutler
Senior Member

Posts: 234

QB Read Play Feb 20, 2006 21:33:00 GMT

Quote

Post by jbutler on Feb 20, 2006 21:33:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by: sls
quote:
Originally posted by: History10
Ok, I see the error of my ways!! You said the blocking for Tackle Trap was the same as for ISV, so you MUST be trapping the 5. Duh!! Ok. In your Tackle Trap Switch I'm assuminng you are filling for the pulling tackle with the FB and actuallyl pulling the opposite Tackle to lead for the QB. Is this correct. One last thing does the FB have to be opposite the call side all the time, other than running speed option? I saw a post on this site about running Midline. It looked great. They have TE/Wing on the right and Fb on the right also. They blocked Midline rules (Fan Tackle and TE and bring Wing under to Playside Backer/FS). The read was the 3 tech. If the three stayed outside/up the field give to FB, like any midline play. If the 3 tackled or tried to tackle the FB, QB pulled and ran behind the block of the Wing. Great looking play to get the QB running.
One last reason we are looking at this is because, like the Wing - T years ago, no one in our area runs the spread offense and they don't have three filing cabinets of defenses to stop it. I know when my team gets spread out there is only so much you can do without leaving someone totally uncovered. Thanks again. Darren

We pair our gun runs so that one run goes to the FB sides and one aaway.

These are the plays we pair together.

ISV to FB and Tackle Trap Away

Midline to FB and Speed Away

Toss to and FB trap away.

We use very little TE and even less wing. With a TE we run midline pretty normally. With out a TE we influence with the playside guard and use a short trap on the DE and the playside tackle releases down to the plays Side ILB. The pulling guard stretched the 3 tech.

We run this offense for the smae reason no one else does and te kids love and we now have the most athletes playing that have played in a long time.

Coach, on the speed option, is your pitch back on the side of the call or away? Does it make a great difference? Thanks!

sparkey

sls Senior Member Posts: 211	QB Read Play Feb 21, 2006 20:08:00 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by sls on Feb 21, 2006 20:08:00 GMT We will run it both ways, have not had any problems with it.

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Post by History10 on Jan 11, 2006 7:56:03 GMT

Post by sls on Jan 11, 2006 8:48:25 GMT

Post by History10 on Jan 11, 2006 9:09:56 GMT

Post by History10 on Jan 11, 2006 9:17:33 GMT

Post by History10 on Jan 11, 2006 9:49:26 GMT

Post by sls on Jan 11, 2006 15:19:20 GMT

Post by sls on Jan 11, 2006 15:24:42 GMT

Post by sls on Jan 11, 2006 15:29:07 GMT

Post by dsqa on Jan 11, 2006 20:13:27 GMT

Post by TIGER ONE on Jan 16, 2006 13:48:17 GMT

Post by djtrap2 on Jan 24, 2006 7:49:29 GMT

Post by sls on Jan 24, 2006 8:41:53 GMT

Post by djtrap2 on Jan 25, 2006 10:50:53 GMT

Post by sls on Jan 25, 2006 14:31:02 GMT

Post by djtrap2 on Jan 26, 2006 5:58:17 GMT

Post by sls on Jan 26, 2006 8:53:19 GMT

Post by sls on Jan 26, 2006 8:54:02 GMT

Post by djtrap2 on Jan 26, 2006 10:42:02 GMT

Post by sls on Jan 26, 2006 16:54:55 GMT

Post by djtrap2 on Jan 27, 2006 4:46:41 GMT

Post by sls on Jan 27, 2006 13:02:19 GMT

Post by jbutler on Feb 20, 2006 21:33:00 GMT

Post by sls on Feb 21, 2006 20:08:00 GMT

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