thanks for the replys. I do understand that they are two different offenses. I was wondering why someone would chose either one. Is either a better offense to run if you have small linemen or bigger linemen. What about tight ends? Just wondering since I don't know alot about either one. What are the advantages and disadvantages of them. I am a "I" formation guy with some bunch packages thrown in. Looking for something new since we are not very big but do have some quickness.
We do run some option out of the "I". Mainly outside veer and midline. The qb that will probably start next year could be a pretty good option qb (I think). We will have a number of running backs and a limited supply of wide receivers so I was looking for a three back set. We have some teams in the conference that run the flex bone and have done fairly well. One is playing for state and the other lost in the semis. We done have one tight end type of player, who was all-conference as a soph. He is 6'5 220 which would be a better offense suited for him and catching the ball? Thanks
Sounds like you have good personell to make the switch the double-wing. I AM NOT A DW COACH. However, it is my understanding that it takes a great deal of time and effort, especailly in the first year to switch to that system. The DW is not just a formation, it is a system and a very different one from most anything else. There are tons of materials available if you decide to go that way. Coach Seay offered to help in a post above. He is as good a DW coach as you can find anywhere.
If, on the other hand, you are looking to tweak your more traditional system to fit your kids abilities/limitations, I would by happy to share some of my thoughts with you. E-mail if interested at: SOrndoff@adelphia.net
There are different ways to run the double wing. You can run a hybrid double wing offense with rocket and jet etc. (Which is not Wing T or you can run a tight split double wing like Hugh Wyatt's stuff. We currently run the first one. It is OUTSTANDING !!! This past year our offense totaled at over 2500 yds. We had a 1000 yd rusher for the 1st time in ten years and another rusher at 700. We had a horrible QB and still had these stats. We run ROCKET/JET/POWER/COUNTER/ICE/ AND TRAP. We play in the largest school division in our state and this past year our league games were vs. the number 1, 8 and 10 team in the state. We were in the game with a chance to win against all three with the following OLINE:
Center: 6-0 190
RT Guard: 5-10 205
LT Guard: 6-0 185
LT Tackle: 6-2 230
RT Tackle: 5-10 205
We threw the ball 4-6 times a game because our QB was horrible. The passes were play action and screen only. We did not use any dropback. If we had a better passer we would have done even better. If you run this type of Double Wing then the transition to a flexbone or option offense is very easy. One would only have to add the Midline/Inside veer/ and lead or load options to the running game. One other thing, if you want to be able to run hundreds of formations and still run the entire offense, then this offense is the way to go. We run anywhere from 30-40 different formations a game. Then 30-40 different formations the next game. There was a point this season we did not run the same formations for three games. We hide our entire offense and weaknesses with the formations we run. We are constantly changing our formations to always try to outflank and out number our opponent. The old head coach ran Hugh Wyatt's Double wing offense and went 0-20 with it. We did not have the right kind of line for the offense. However, remember every week there is some one winning with the double wing, I, Flexbone, spread and Power I etc. and there are always some one losing with the double wing, I, flexbone, spread and Power I etc. also.
I also coaches on the minor league football level and we ran the single back offense:
INSIDE ZONE/OUTSIDE ZONE/COUNTER/ POWER AND ISO. THREW THE BALL AT LEAST 30 TIMES A GAME. We would have 2-3 different rushers every game with 100yds or more on 8 carries each etc. We went 10-1 both years losing in the championship game. When I tried running the same offense with the current high school I am at we could not get anymore than 60yds a game rushing and 100yds passing. We went to the hybrid double wing and BAM!!! We moved the ball with great success and scored a lot. What is my point? The difference between the two offenses was personnel. We had great personnel with the minor league team and average personnel with the high school team. If your looking for an offense that will work with both average and great athletes the hybrid double wing is the way to go in my opinion.
NO MATTER WHAT OFFENSE YOU ENDING UP CHOOSING MAKE SURE YOU COMMIT TO IT ALL THE WAY AND GET YOUR PLAYERS TO COMMIT TO IT ALSO.
We dont lose any games we just run out of time.
We are looking to run the flexbone. I have considered running the double wing/double tight also but we are limited on tight end types and oline. We have a number of running backs that I think we could convert into a split end type and have one tight end that is 6'4 215 that we normally line up in the split end spot.
I love option football and when it is executed correctly it is virtually unstoppable. However, there are some problems with the offense:
1. You must at least 2-3 QB's to run it. This is the first thing the defense is going to attack. Option coaches will tell you "Well we will teach our kids good fundamentals so that this will prevent them from taking big hits and getting hurt." I have had QB's get hurt in PE class playing basketball or they get hurt on a boot pass because the guard did not pull. It may not be the option that kills them it may be something else. Therefore, if you are going to spend a lot of your practice time on option then you had better have several QB's. The last thing you want is to go into a game and BAM! your 1st QB is gone and so is your offense.
2. Are you comfortable with one player making decisions that could mean the otucome of the game? Because that is ultimately what you are doing.
3. What Navy and Air Force runs is NOT EASY!! to execute. They make it look easy, but it is not. Are you ready to invest that time necessary to run this with great execution. Because if your kids execute great, but if they can not, it will get ugly quick. Paul Johnson says Navy runs the option part of their offense probably 80% of their practice. The passing game gets 20%. Chuck Petersen says Air force practices their option offense 70% and passing game 30%. He even went as far to say they only spend thirty minutes a day on the passing game and some days they can not get to it. What that tells me is that this offense (in order to get good at it) requires a great deal of time on one area, which leaves you with very little time for another area.
4. You must have all of the answers practiced and performed with great execution. I see posts on this website all of the time. We run midline or we run veer or speed option. If you run option you need all three. You need midline/veer/ and lead options. If you do not have all three options well practice, they will force you to run the one you do not have. See we can take away veer and midline, but not lead. We can take away midline and lead, but not veer. Finally, we can take away veer and lead, but not midline. What if you do not want them to hit your QB run load. What if they use a bear front, then run lead. What if they have double 3 techs, then run midline.
The main reason we went into the Hybrid double wing was because of reason number one. If we lost our QB we knew that you can still execute this offense with an average QB. OPton football is the great equalizer and can allow average talent to play with better talent. If has many advantages and is definitely something to investigate and possibly use.
Hope this helps
We dont lose any games we just run out of time.
SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF EXPERIENCE WITH THE OPTION. Always good to hear from experienced option coaches. I ran the triple out of the bone for a number of years on the HS level with a good deal of good things happening as a result.
I don't agree with some of your statements, but that is perfectly all right as you probably won't agree with all of mine either.
The first one I take issue with is your need to have SEVERAL QB's. Having several QB's( I always have 3 ready to go at all times ) presents a real practice problem in getting # 2 and # 3 practice reps WITH THE FIRST UNIT DURING THE WORK WEEK. Having been a Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator for the majority of a 42 year on field career who considers himself a QB coach first and foremost, I will offer from experience that it is very difficult to get the # 3 guy reps with anybody but the # 2 and #3 units. Most often the # 1 is going to get 80% of the reps with the #2 getting 20 % with the first unit. Perhaps I am taking out of context your meaning of the word SEVERAL and if I am please correct me immediately so that we can always be on the same page in our discussions, OK?
The second is: ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH ONE GUY MAKING DECISIONS THAT AFFECT THE GAME'S OUTCOME? Coach, I know you pose this as a question and not as anything else. My answer is unequivocally YES I AM. In my opinion, if your not then your playing the wrong guy! Having been asked a million times (or so it seems) what do you look for first in the guy you choose to be your QB, my pat answer is GIVE ME THE GUY WHO CAN READ IT THE BEST AND HE WILL BE MY STARTER! You can have the best athlete, the fastest and quickest runner, etc. at QB but if you are running the option and he can't read it and make CORRECT DECISIONS, then he will not be my starter, ever! I'll take the lesser athlete, but who has real football savvy and brains and the ability to read it correctly EVERY TIME.
As you know, a true option team is only going to throw the ball a limited number of times per game. But, you know what? When I ran the option we practiced the passing game, against the secondary, until we were blue in the face each and every day of the work week! IN ORDER TO HAVE A QB WHO CAN RUN 20-25 OPTION PLAYS AND THEN BE ASKED TO EXECUTE A CRITICAL PASS WITHOUT HAVING ESTABLISHED ONE BIT OF RHYTHM, IS ASKING A WHOLE LOT. IF HE DOESN'T PRACTICE HIS THROWING SKILLS EVEN MORE THAN HIS BALL HANDLING SKILLS NECESSARY FOR SUCCESS WITH THE OPTION, I.E. PITCHING, ETC. HE WON'T BE ABLE TO HIT A BULL IN THE BUTT WITH A BASS FIDDLE COME GAME NIGHT AND THATS A FACT ALSO FROM EXPERIENCE.
Looking forward to your comments, coach and enjoying the discussion very much.
J.C. EASTON<BR>HEAD COACH<BR>GA TIGERS FOOTBALL<BR>PROFESSIONAL MINOR LEAGUE
Good to hear from you again. We have had discussions on the phone many times in the past about inside zone and outside run games. You are right in that I have a lot of experience with the option offenses. Lately (because of personnel) we have been running double wing offense. Rocket/Jet etc.. It has brought some great success on the offensive side of the football. All of your statements are accurate and correct. When we ran the option we were oK with one kid making decisions. You have to in an option offense. We have two QB's that can run this year and we are going back to putting the option into our offense. You refer to this and you are once again correct in that I was posing all of my statements as a question. The person asking was asking for opinions and I wanted to give him some questions to think about and only he can answer how comfortable he would be with the option offense. When we did not have a great OLine and backs we went to this offense and had great success with it. We run more like Tony Demeo under center stuff, then we do NAVY and Air Force style. We do not ride and decide. We are no mesh style. We run midline/ veer and lead option.
Coach when you practiced vs. the secondary how did that go?
When we did it. The passing game was not the same because the option passing game counts on secondary reactions to the option. Let me know how you did the practice?
We dont lose any games we just run out of time.