veer based offense question

Coach, thanks for the reply.

You aren't going to like the response, but I have to put it out there and then you let me have it if you so desire.

We don't run the many traditional plays you are speaking of...midline, triple-option.

To be honest, I wouldn't consider us an option team...we either call the veer, both inside and outside or we are calling the option, ie the QB either keeps it based on an EMLOS read or he pitches. We also run the QP.

In each instance the play of our EMLOS points their edge defenders directly to the play. If we have a superior athlete we can typically take them, but with solid coaching they can have their DE causing some problems. What makes this more of an issue is that typically many of our traditional playside veer blocking schemes result in plays that end with a similar point of attack whereas our outside plays typically have an edge look similar to the QP.

Coach Cella,

I'm not quite understanding you on this one...

...The system I'm a part of is one I inherited and moreover I'm not in any position to change where I'm at. I understand the advantages of what you are saying with a particular offense...

I can see my question is a bit convoluted...maybe it's better explained with direct examples in the Installing the Run Game section.

How best do I put this...

...I guess the best answer is to say that it is more the former.

Just to clarify though...in our scheme we have base veer rules to the play side. Whether we run our inside or outside veer we are leaving the EMLOS unblocked and then blocking down. If we are facing an even front with a 3 technique we will most often be running the inside veer with a double on the 3 to the backer. That leaves you TE to the strength going down on a backer. Usually in an odd front we are running the outside veer. From that perspective we are strictly calling the give from the sidelines or the veer option from the sidelines. If we are calling the veer then he is giving it no matter what. If we are calling teh veer option he is faking to the veer back and then his decision is either keeping it or pitching based on EMLOS.

Based on that information...does your question change any?

To sum up, the veer/veer option to a side is not a single play for us although the blocking at the point of attack is the same. They are actually two different (three if you count inside and outside veer) calls. So coming out of the huddle the QB knows prior to hitting the line whether or not he'll be giving to the veer back or not.

Ack27,

This is somewhat correct. The issue here has much less to do with running the veer versus running the option and affecting the DE as it does to the rest of the offense we run in conjunction with those two plays.

We've been fairly successful with running our veer over the years and occasionally throwing the option call in throughout the game to keep the DE honest.

What is of concern to me though is more the concept that when we attack outside the EMLOS, IOW our POA is outside EMLOS we are almost exclusively giving a hook or reach type action on the edge. On the flip side when we are attacking inside the EMLOS our blocking for most plays for the line to his side is veer blocking, everyone heading down for doubles on the line to the LBs.

Since our quick veer and our quick toss or quick pitch action are two of our mainstays I've come to the following thought. If I were a DC looking at us and summing everything up I'd look and say that we have to (a) stop the veer and (b) stop the quick pitch action. Although these plays put two extremely different stresses on the EMLOS, which sounds good initially, I think a savvy DC would say that he could have his EMLOS sell out based on our OT or TE's movement. If he blocks down you fly hard inside and if he tries to hook you, fight like crazy to the outside and let pursuit track him down from inside out.

Folks, maybe reading this and saying...we'll for starters use your veer option more. Here is an instance where you give an inside POA look (which causes the EMLOS to cave) and then you hit them outside. I would agree, but in general we haven't had over the years the prototypical option QB so as I said earlier the option for us has really just been a slight change of pace during a game.

Moreover, the logic that I'm speaking about concerns more many of the plays we also run and how they feed right into the above logic. For instance a pure toss action with a lead back...we hook. Our power, counter, counter trey action, we veer block. If the DC were to coach up his EMLOS to simply sell out based on what I described above he has effectively combated a number of plays and the only thing the EMLOS has to do is react has hard as he can to what the guy over him does. The only negative to this philosophy is that the EMLOS is giving up the option, but if I'm the DC I'm prepping other folks to handle that the few times we run it in a game.

What I talked about in some other posts, and maybe here is that with specifically the counter and counter trey action I think we could definitely arc release our OT or TE to a second level and influence the EMLOS a bit more, benefits being that we potentially open a bit wider lane for our RB and more space for our pullers. More importantly I feel like we would force opposing DCs to have to coach up their DEs a bit more to not simply react and be in a win-win situation, but have to put a tad bit of thinking alongside the reaction.

Additionally, I was trying to get ideas from folks as to their thoughts on the above as well as any other ideas for possible blocking schemes that may change what we do on the edge and work to thwart the DE.

Why is this important...as I look back over our past two seasons (at the minimum) our exits from the playoffs I think were do in large part to our opposing DE line play. Two years ago the team we faced had to solid DEs, both playing D-IA ball now, but really fed off of what I described above and then this past year same thing (although a sloppy field also hurt us a bit...more so then I had thought it would...our outside game was hindered greatly).

Look forward to comments.

Coach, it not so much of x's and o's, than it is jim's and joe's...if you are facing a big time player at D-end, you have to do something to occupy him...A friend friend of mine in Jeremy Johnson(FB 4 the Bengals), and he always talks about how they have to occupy Ray Lewis down after down, because if you let him do what he does best, your offense is hendered...As 4 the arc release, we are refering to the same thing...I hope that you guys get this problem solved, bedsause if you don't, you will always lose games because of it....Thanks 4 responding...:cool;

Have you been here?

?Split Back Veer Association