Companions to midline, ISV, OSV

If we are planning on running sprint out with a good running QB, would that be enough for a perimeter run play? We have had success in the past with sprint out so that would be something we could just continue to run. We have taught it as a run first, pass second type of play in the past.

Rocket Sweep is not hard to implement and rep effectively.

CUI,

Remember that a QB and a RB or FB do not run the same. Running from the QB position is a whole different ball game because of the different angles of his path. A running QB is worth his weight in gold in todays game, but the man is so valuable that to run him often is just asking for trouble as it is just a part of the skills he must possess to play the position, while the PRIMARY JOB OF THE RB OR FB IS TO RUN THE BALL. My suggestion is to let them run it as much as possible, and let the QB pop one every now and then just to keep the defense honest. Just a suggestion as always.

Coach Easton-TIGER ONE

CUI,
I've always felt that high school option teams do not run enough misdirection off of veer action. The best two misdirection plays we run are a slot counter with the old Delaware "Sally" blocking scheme(especially good vs. a defensive that likes to get upfield), and a "pop" pass to the TE away from the veer action (he basically replaces the backside LB who left to pursue the FB on veer. The misdirection plays have always been our biggest plays, and at the same time slow down the pursuit.

What about FB trap? Isn't this a good misdirection play? I will have to read up on sally blocking. We have blocked counter like counter trey in the past (away from the TE). This year we are only using one back so I am concerned that penetration will hurt a counter to the WR / Slot.

Coach
Be careful of putting too much in and being a "jack of all trades and a master of none". What level are you coaching? If it is High school then be careful not to give the teams your playing too much respect. To stop a team executing the triple and midline and outside veer very well is not an easy task even vs. a good opponent. Look at Navy, how much of their compliments do they use in a game. NOT MANY. It is more important to find ways to make the above plays work despite the defenses efforts and have a compliment that counters and play action passes. The P/A and counters will kill them once you establish the triple, midline and OV. Coach Cella is VERY accurate in his advice to you. The rocket is not as easy to implement as one thinks. There are some VERY IMPORTANT coaching points that need to be emphasized. The rocket for us is our play. We do not use it as a compliment or gimmick to add. Here is the blocking scheme and coaching points on the rocket:

1st you must use a outside count system to identify who to block. The outside count system works with number one the first Down Linemen on or outside your widest offensive linemen. Then if going to the right you would count defenders in a counter clockwise manner. To the left you will go in a clock wise manner. Finally, the inside LBER is always number 5.

Playside:
Tackle: Tan block. Which means he going to reach block and go up to the LBer unless number one is running sideways to the sideline then he will block him. If number one does not move sideways or goes inside go around him and go to the LBer.
Guard: pull and lead the play up the alley or seal the inside
WB: If there is a hot 2 you must always block a hot 2. If no Hot 2 then:
1. Crack Scheme: Arc release and Kick out the CB. If Hot call off crack and block number 2
2. Base scheme: Arc block and block number 2 (which could be OLB or safety.)
SE:
Crack: 45 degree angle and block 1st man on 2nd level to 3rd level or LBer to Safety.
Back side:
Center/Guard/Tackle: Train block. They will take a reach step to the playside and if there is a down linemen on them when they reach they will block him. If not then they will climb on a 45 degree angle to the playside and pick off the next defender that comes into the train track.
FB: THIS IS A MUST:
HE CAN NOT ALIGN ANY DEEPER THAN 3 1/2 YARDS FROM THE CENTER. IF HE DOES IT SLOWS THE PLAY DOWN GREATLY.
He will take two steps on the midline and then block away from the play to the backside man.
QB: (VERY IMPORTANT!!)
The QB does not snap the football until the motion man leaves his peripheral vision. Tell QB later is better. THIS IS A MUST. THE PLAY IS NOT AS GOOD WHEN YOU ARE SNAPPING THE BALL ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE FB. IT MUST BE ON THE PLAYSIDE OF THE FB. If it seems the play is really wide then you are doing it correctly. WB should catch the pitch where the TE (if there was a TE) would have been and do not accept anything closer.
He must take a step with his playside foot keeping the toes forward and pointing the heel on a 45 degree angle to the playside and then reverse pivot and make the pitch. He then sprints out away for boot pass set up.
WB: He will go in rocket motion. He will aim for a spot exactly one foot behind the FB and nothing deeper. THIS IS A MUST: ONCE HE HITS THAT SPOT HE MUST GO STRAIGHT ACROSS TO THE SIDELINE. YOU CAN NOT ARC DEEPER OR GET CLOSER. IT WILL RUIN THE PLAY. BE DEMANDING OF THIS.
SE: Cut off Block

Be careful not to assume that you just rep it out and it is a play that will install itself and work. You must be strict with the above coaching points. We are still working on getting our kids to execute it perfectly.
Hope this helps
Karjaw

CUI,

We ran the standard complimentary plays with all the opotions( sweeps, counters, power, etc.) but our pop pass to our TE was the best PA pass that we had off the inside veer option, especially down close. Another favorite was our TOP PASS(TRIPLE OPTION PASS) where we faked the dive on ISV to the FB, QB continues his downhill surge behind the OL making it look like a QB keeper, then as soon as he reaches the spot directly behind the playside OT, he takes a quick 3 step drop and has the TE running a 10 yd drag, the two WR's running boundary release go's and the FB pulling up and squatting in front of the FS at 7-9 yds. HE IS USUALLY THE GUY WHO COMES WIDE OPEN 9 OUT OF 10 TIMES, as the FS noting he does not have the ball on the dive fake tends to forget him and looks for the ball leaving the FB completely uncovered in the MOF. I had Ralph Dawkins, older brother of Brian Dawkins of the NFL Eagles,
who got over 400 yds in his Senior year on this one play alone, by catching this pass and running after the catch! Howard Schenllinberger who was the head coach at Louisville then, gave Ralph a full ride and an exceptional college career, based in large part on how he ran this play! Couple of years later when Brian Dawkins came along, he wanted to play defense and you know the rest of the story. He played with my son at Clemson and went on to become what a lot of people call him now, the best safety in the NFL.

Coach Easton-TIGER ONE

quote:

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Originally posted by: wc76
Coach Cella,
This kinda leads to a whole bunch of splinter topics and neat discussions. Regarding Sally we run this misdirection play to only to upfield penetrating defenses and usually use a TE and run the Sally back to the TE, so we have the extra blocker. TE and Sally side OT, if engaged, ride their man upfield three yards then release for linebacker, hopefully this takes care of the LB's. If G and C are not engaged (defender does not cross their face) they go to search out a LB. It is not a good play vs. defenses who sit on the LOS then we not game plan sally, but will run a counter trey misdirection play.

This leads me to another question and perhaps a new topic. After three years of running veer / midline we finally put in counter option and it was a great play. How would you block counter option vs, the the 5-3 stack? Will the OT take the DT down in the wash and the pulling guard cut up around this block for LB and pitch off the DE? Or would you somehow try to release the OT for LB and have the pulling guard cut the DT(he legally can be cut in high school because he is lined up in the free blocking zone and the ball never leaves the zone)?
Possible new topic: Regarding the 5-3 stack. We visited Georgis Southern about 7 or 8 years ago and they said you can't allow teams to line up in the 5-3 stack because there are too many triangular stunting combinations and it will drive you crazy. My question is what can be done to get them out of it ie. certain formations?, special plays?

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Regarding the 5-3 stack. If you are running the ISV from the spread ( double wing formation) you cannot allow them to align in the 5-3. You have 4 quick vertical rec's and they have 3 cover guys. So spread your formation


How to run counter option....Ga. Southern style........vs the 5-2..remember..you just chased them out of the 5-3 with verticals and quick passes.....the dt is the key..if he is squeezing the tackles release to LB then the pulling guard will "log" or use the wrap around block...if DT is running upfield..you have to trap,,,if the tackle gets caught up in the ot's wash then og pulls and climbs to LB.

NOTE...DO NOT RUN COUNTER OPTION TO A DE ON LOS..We only ran to a Hipped End.. If QB feels like the DE may come..then QB does not counter..he opens playside with depth ( guard is still pulling )and waits for back to get in pitch relationship and pitches.

He pitches when he feels that the defender can no longer run to pitch..once he is outflanked..pitch...

Lou must have replied while I was still thinking. Lou is exactly right.....Lou need an OC for your new team?


But they cannot play you in a 5-3 out of the double wing formation....You have to chase them out....the spread formation got it's roots from Ben Griffin, run and shoot guy and he mofified it into the triple...don't forget the run and shoot passing priciples..Navy hasn't.

Am I not picturing something right? If you log the 4-5 tech, who do you pitch off? WILL or a Safety?

Coaches
In regards to the 53 stack:
How many are there in between the tackles?
6 to your 5.
How many outside the tackles?
2 to your 2. If you move the SE over then how many? 2 to your 3. Even if they adjust with moving the front over, still 3 on 2. In most cases a defense does not adjust to SE over. They simply move the CB over. If they move the FS over to that side it is 3 on 3 with the sandbox wide open. IMO, it is just common sense to run outside. However, there are coaches who must run their interior plays. There is a simple solution:
Unbalanced
Inside Veer
Create a 4 man surface to the playside and have the SE come over as well. Then you now have your WB come into a shortback position in th B gap. The SE cracks the PSLBER to FS. The shortback leads up onto the MLB. The PSG doubles the NG to BSLBER. The PST veers inside to the OLBER and if he runs outside do not chase and look inside for MLBER. TE reach blocks the DE. If the DE stretches the play then the QB runs up the C gap seam and keeps the ball. The dive key is DT and the pitch key is the CB.

Midline
The PSG doubles NG with center like above. The Shortback blocks MLBER. The tackle veers to the OLBER and the SE stalks the CB. The TE blocks the DE out. The opposite WB goes in motion and then comes down inside to block the OLBER with the tackle.

Hope this helps
Karjaw

Deac,

Question? What do you do with a 5-3 stack that aligns the 5 tech you mention in the post in a 4i which as you know forces the QB to read automatic pull in the PSL? As you also know I'm sure, the rule on the read for the ISV is the first man outside the B hole which is usually a 4i, 4 , or 5 tech but depending upon the stacked alignment of the LB, HE may become the read. I know the load is the way to go but lets say that your insistent upon running the veer this night, how are you going to attack it now and not let them stop you from getting to the perimeter? Just curious as to your thinking in this scenario.

Coach Easton-TIGER ONE

Tiger:

Three plays to take advantage:

1. OSV-wash the 4i down, TE or slot block down on PSLB and force the DE to be #1

2. Run ct. option. OT washes down 4i, bsg pulls and gets PSLB. FB fills to BSLB. Slot counters and gets C.

WR push cracks FS. Pitch man is starting from a dead start and has to hustle to get in pitch relationship. I'd also make sure that the DE has been slow playing the QB ..or we would not run it.

3. Outside release the OT to PSLB and run normal ISV- In this scenario--the defense is foolish..You are playing 4 and 4i and allowing the O to get to the perimeter...with no outside run support. The interior is balanced but the secondary is not. CERTAINLY IF A D PLAYS THAT WAY..YOU WIN.

What we were always afraid of versus the stack is 4i DT( Pull), Crashing end (quick pitch) and scraping LB....No Blocker.. That's why you have to load the FSLB..he cannot outside release.

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