Simple System?

What coverages will you play?
We play a couple teams that run a shade and we base out of a 5-2.
I think the shade is a great defense. It can be a pain for man blocking teams to prep for if you can change up your tendencies to shade. We have given shade teams a fit by going to TE trips formations and running or rolling out to the TE side. We seem to attack the drop end side of the shade defense most of the time besides these types of plays, and have had a lot of success doing so, but I think this is mostly becaue teams will put their best players on the rush end side (rush end, SS, and MLB).
To me, the weakness of both defenses is expecting that drop end to play both the run and pass. That is why we have success running to the drop end side. That is also why we don't have the ends play much pass coverage in our 50. We will play as much man and / or cover 2 as we can and just let the DEs play the run. If a back releases outside of them they run with them (in theory anyway, a lot of times this doesn't get done).
I agree that it is nice to have the interior people play pretty much their same techniques every play (3 tech, 1 tech, etc), but you can really do that in any defense.
I love the 50, but that is also what I know. I love the fact that we can change alignments, but keep techniques the same. I like how the front 7 have a key right in front of them to read every play, and how our defense is always set up to contain the ball and run to it.
Do you have any more knowlede or experience running either defense? I think that should be the determining factor for you.
Good topic.

Stoptherun, decide on a base, and have tweeks that will allow you to Attack certain offenses and keep your Defensive Concepts the same....Some Coaches want to run Multiple Looks; however, their concepts are multiple which will place SHACKLES on the Players....Do what you know, and what your Jimmies and Joes allow U 2 do.........:light;

Bill - Those are some very good arguments for playing a 4-4. How would you align to a double tight, one back (ace) set with your 4-4? 1 and 5/7, 3 and 7 techniques?

Thanks coach,
I've made up my mind. Keep it simple... I understand the shade the best and therefore, the shade is what I will run.

Thanks to all coahces who helped out.

I'll be back with no less than a million questions.

coach,
We will typically only shade our front to the TE when into the boundary. This way we put our SS to the field. If they set their TE to the field, we will simply be in our open defense. (Open - 3, 8, 30 ILB, SS as OLB).
If we did call Tight front while in the middle of the field, we would do one of three things:
1. Roll the SS away from the 9 technique in cover 3 (if no TE, our 9 technique would be in "walk" technique)
2. Play cover 4
3. "Tear" the TE side and "walk" our 9 technique off (shade to a 1, 5 to a 7) and play cover three with Sam backer in flats on one side, SS in flats to opposite side.

Hope this makes sense. Let me know if you see any holes.

Thanks

This is going to be an incomplete thought, and I wish I could offer more info, but this is all I know right now. The best football program in our state bases out of a 5-2, but will adjust to a 4-3 or 4-2 based on the team they are playing and the types of plays they see out of certain formations. For instance, if a team will run the ball out at them with the traditional run plays out of a 2 back set, they will play their 5-2, which looks pretty much like a basic okie defense. The front 7 attack the man over them and read their block. This is their base defense.
They will put their best "sand lot" type of kid, not their best athlete, but the one who really loves and understands the game at right DE. They claim he is the only player who really changes responsibility / technique in the other two defensive looks. I believe they will put him as an invert type of player in the 4-3 defense and the FREE SAFETY in their 4-2. I really like this concept since it is very close to what we do.

I run Colerain's offense and defense. They are always in a 4 shell and roll to cover 3. They will roll weak and strong....so both DE's must learn how to drop into coverage. The will always angle away from the roll and defend the field. His DVD on the 50 is good and basic...I am telling you they are vanilla. There are a lot of coaches on here who think they are better and more superior than those that believe in the tried and true of 52 C3, 4, or 2. The will never change their front unless 3 backs in backfield and then they become a 62. Again, a lot oc coaches on here will tell you that you can not adjust with the 52....they are wrong. I live in Ohio and if you check our the number of State Champions over the last decade in all divisions you will see a majority are in Odd Fronts.

The topic of this discussion was "SIMPLE SYSTEM" (5-2 vs. 4-4):

Pursuant to THAT topic, Of COURSE you CAN adjust out of a 5-2 - I ran it for 23 years on all three levels! It is just far HARDER to adjust out of a 5-2 than a 4-4 (that's a "no brainer"). Ask Lou Holtz (who ran Woody Hayes' 5-2 for him at Ohio St in Woody's GREAT years) WHY he changed from a 5-2 to a 4-4. It was ALL about adjustments.

I can remember Tom Osborne's GREAT Nebraska teams in the 70's, 80's & early 90's (with Monte Kiffin as "DC") dropping the 5-2 for a 4-3 for some of the SAME reasons.

The MASTER "5-2" Coach in the NFL was Bill Arnsparger ("DC" under Shula with the Dolphins). In Super Bowl XVII - The Redskins shift package (AKA "EXPLODE") confused the Dolphins 5-2 so bad, that it cost them the game. See this exerpt from an old article:

TAKEN FROM A S.I. ARTICLE ANBOUT SUPER BOWL XVII:

Some of Gibbs' stuff had confused the Dolphins enough to keep them from overplaying Riggins. The topper was the particularly zany Explode Package, in which the five eligible pass receivers lined up in strange places, jumped into different locations and took their prescribed one-second pause. As usual, a receiver then went in motion.

"We put it in at 3:30 a.m. Thursday morning," Washington offensive coordinator Joe Bugel said. "It was at the end of our coaches' meeting. We were trying to think of something special. Someone would make a suggestion. It didn't click. Then someone would make another. We'd have a cup of coffee, a candy bar. All of a sudden Coach Gibbs said, 'How about moving everybody?' And one guy said, 'Now you're talking.' And the Explode Package was born. That morning at 10 o'clock we presented it to the team. Coach Gibbs diagrammed it and said, 'Men, we call this Explode!' and there was this yell throughout the room: 'Yeeahhh!' It sure got their attention."

The Skins used the Explode about five times and got two short touchdown passes out of it, a four-yarder to Garrett in the second quarter and the final TD, a six-yarder to Brown, at the end of the game. Both came out of an alignment in which the two little guys started out together, almost in single file, then split and crossed into the end zone. Both times the coverage was close. Maybe the formation provided a split second's indecision, maybe it didn't, but it didn't hurt.

Gerald Small, the right cornerback, ended up with the coverage on both touchdowns. The first one was a little fade pattern, in which Garrett ran to a spot and Theismann dropped the ball on him. The second was a crisscross in which Brown started inside and then cut for the corner. Small caught up to him the moment the ball arrived and gave him a mighty push out of bounds, but the official ruled Brown had been forced out, and the touchdown stood.

The point is that however they did it, the Redskins wound up with the coverage they wanted both times -- Small on the hot receiver.

Some of the wrinkles were more subtle. Warren, the regular tight end, occasionally would go in motion. Rick Walker, the second tight end, who sets up behind the line and who had been going in motion all year, stayed put.

"It's the first time we did that all year," Gibbs said. "The idea of the reverses, the flea-flickers, the Explode, was to keep them loose, to keep them from getting after John. We wanted a situation where John could get decent yardage on first down so we wouldn't have to throw when they were expecting it. In the second half we accomplished that. Give the offensive line credit for a lot of that.



This is my last post on this subject. Each of you should simply run what YOU like best!!!!!!!!!!!

Does Colerain run the triple with a mesh or no mesh? I'd like to hear more about them.