Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense?

Coach W Member Posts: 88	Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Feb 25, 2003 20:45:42 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Coach W on Feb 25, 2003 20:45:42 GMT I'm looking for anyone who runs a 4-2-5 defense who would be willing to send me info about it. I'm mostly interested in alignment vs. formations and coverages. Thanks. Coach W

Coach Campbell Forum Owners Welcome to JCFB.com website and Forum Posts: 7,867	Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Feb 26, 2003 6:43:45 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Coach Campbell on Feb 26, 2003 6:43:45 GMT Coach W - I wrote the Installation on the implmentation of the multiple 40 defense that you might like, it can be obtained through our resource store. Coach CAmpbell

digz Junior Member Posts: 6	Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Mar 19, 2003 15:38:18 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by digz on Mar 19, 2003 15:38:18 GMT I ran a version of it last season. It is safe and easily adjustible. Contact digz94@hotmail.com if you have any questions.

Superchief
Senior Member

Posts: 270

Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Mar 20, 2003 14:59:05 GMT

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Post by Superchief on Mar 20, 2003 14:59:05 GMT

We run a variation of the 4-2-5, which is really nothing more than an old-fashioned Wide Tackle-6. I've been running this defense since 1976. I am willing to help you if I can. I have won state championships at two different school with this defense.

Lou Cella Senior Member Posts: 1,486	Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Apr 7, 2003 17:05:01 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Lou Cella on Apr 7, 2003 17:05:01 GMT I know that Villanova runs a 4-2-5. Oklahoma State does as well. Lou Cella
	Lou Cella Head Varsity Football Coach Greater Nanticoke Area High School (PA)

abarlament Junior Member Posts: 2	Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Oct 30, 2003 18:52:31 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by abarlament on Oct 30, 2003 18:52:31 GMT Could you give me the basics? This sounds interesting, but I don't have the foggiest. Could you give me the philosophy and alignments? Is there a site with diagrams?

DC29 Senior Member Posts: 453	Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Oct 31, 2003 22:16:07 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by DC29 on Oct 31, 2003 22:16:07 GMT you could also look at some of the things the 33 coaches are talking about. the 42 can be run like the 33, using the 6 gap principle.
	last one with the pencil wins!!

DC29 Senior Member Posts: 453	Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Oct 31, 2003 22:16:25 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by DC29 on Oct 31, 2003 22:16:25 GMT you could also look at some of the things the 33 coaches are talking about. the 42 can be run like the 33, using the 6 gap principle.
	last one with the pencil wins!!

BROPHY
Senior Member

Posts: 249

Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Nov 3, 2003 7:35:36 GMT

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Post by BROPHY on Nov 3, 2003 7:35:36 GMT

I run the 4-2-5, we were able to adjust INTO 6 different fronts & 6 different coverages (with a host of blitz capabilities).

email mjbrophy@netexpress.net

most of my stuff I run through real simply on Excel (playbook) so I can just forward those files to you.

jtallen Junior Member Posts: 10	Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Nov 4, 2003 11:44:16 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by jtallen on Nov 4, 2003 11:44:16 GMT Coach, Is there anyway I could get some of your defensive package? Thanks, Jim Tom Allen jallen@paintsville.k12.ky.us

run_n_hit Junior Member Posts: 9	Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Dec 5, 2003 9:17:16 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by run_n_hit on Dec 5, 2003 9:17:16 GMT TCU, Baylor, OSU all run 4-2-5...we got some good stuff from them.
	"run_n_hit....that's what we do"

greer_b14 Junior Member Posts: 5	Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Mar 23, 2004 15:33:29 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by greer_b14 on Mar 23, 2004 15:33:29 GMT Howdy, Could you send me some of your information about the 4-2-5. I like the idea of mixing it with some split middle packages. Thank you Please send to greer_b14@onebox.com
	Robert J. Greer Jr.

zulu
Member

Posts: 104

Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Mar 23, 2004 16:27:44 GMT

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Post by zulu on Mar 23, 2004 16:27:44 GMT

we use the 4-2-5 on first downs vs multiple set teams or teams that take 21 personnel and shift into all types of formations.
we use weak eagle vs 21 personnel and on run downs, primarily with a te in the game.
finally, we use a 3-2-6 vs 1 back teams and to pressure on throwing downs.
the main principles of our 4-2 and weak eagle are basically the same
and our 3-2 stuff is not overly complicated, and we have had pretty good success with it.

"don't think you are, know you are."
"stop trying to hit me & hit me."

cdawg
Junior Member

Posts: 3

Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Mar 30, 2004 9:05:47 GMT

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Post by cdawg on Mar 30, 2004 9:05:47 GMT

I have been a 4-3 guy for 12 years and have recently been studying the 4-4 because of personnel. I'm not very smart, so could someone tell me the difference between the 4-4 & 4-2-5.
I am assuming it is personnel. Secondary people vs. linebacker people.

Superchief
Senior Member

Posts: 270

Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Mar 30, 2004 14:54:34 GMT

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Post by Superchief on Mar 30, 2004 14:54:34 GMT

You are right when you say it's the personnel. At the college level, the OLB's are really big corners or fast strong safeties. The inside LB's are usually true LB-types. I see this scheme as really being nothing more than a Wide Tackle-6 defense, with one exception- DB-type kids play the OLB position. This scheme allows the defense to play an 8-man front vs a two-back formation and play a 7-man front vs a one-back formation, all without having to substitute personnel. So, in essence, it gives the defense the best of both worlds. I have been coaching this scheme since 1975 and love it. The adjustments have been simple, and the stunt possibilites are endless. This scheme has allowed us to be competitive when we didn't have great football players, and outstanding when we had great ones. We had to become creative during the years we didn't have great talent; this scheme allowed to do so without "major surgery". We were able to make some minor tweaks, but keep within the framework of the scheme.

BROPHY
Senior Member

Posts: 249

Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Mar 31, 2004 15:54:59 GMT

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Post by BROPHY on Mar 31, 2004 15:54:59 GMT

yeah personnel & alignment.

if you stick a basic cover 3 look, you're basically a 44 / wide tackle 6 defense. We use it because we generally have inner city athletes and by keeping it simple and let them fly around we are able to use their strengths rather than forcing kids into positions they're not really ready to play.

We run a variety of coverages and can go from a 4-3 to a 4-6 to a 3-4 to 3-5 to a 5-2, with a simple adjustment call....the personnel never changes....it's all about how you use the talent you have..

cdawg
Junior Member

Posts: 3

Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Mar 31, 2004 20:18:12 GMT

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Post by cdawg on Mar 31, 2004 20:18:12 GMT

Thank You Coaches,

I was wanting to slide our sam (SOLB) to a 9 tech. to give us a 50 look. (9,5,Shade str., 3,5) I was planning on walking the rover(WOLB) to the safety position to play quarters behind it. If I wanted to play cover 3 or got tripps strong, would it be sound to bring the rover to the tripps side? That would put sam and rover both on the same side. My rule was going to be rover stays weak unless tripps(cover 3)

Also wanted to know your thoughts on SE (7 tech or 6 tech) Right now I am planning on 6. Read some, stunt him hard inside some on what we call a mesh stunt. If we want him in a 7, will call tight, but base from a 6. We do see a couple of option teams and this has me worried.

center Member Posts: 70	Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Apr 8, 2004 20:07:38 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by center on Apr 8, 2004 20:07:38 GMT How the 4-2-5 (4-4) stack up versus 2 TE and 2 or 3 backs in the backfield?

Superchief
Senior Member

Posts: 270

Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Apr 9, 2004 4:02:12 GMT

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Post by Superchief on Apr 9, 2004 4:02:12 GMT

We are a 4-4 (Wide Tackle-6), and we would not be in this front vs a team that has two TE's and all the backs in the backfield. Vs this formation we would run a 6-2 front: DT's in a 1 tech; DE's in a 5 tech; OLB's in a 9 tech(we might have to sub here); LB's head on OT's. The C's play man on the TE's. The FS can play like a deep MLB(6yds deep) or can play like a robber(coach him up as to what he is to do on pass). You can use the 4-2-5 look and do some things, but I would not line up in it every down.

CoachMinor
Junior Member

Posts: 2

Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Feb 15, 2009 11:40:21 GMT

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Post by CoachMinor on Feb 15, 2009 11:40:21 GMT

You can easily run the 4-2-5 vs and Ace formation by playing what I call cover 8 and roll your both safeties down out of a two high look and you are basically playing a true man cover zero look. Here at Macalester we have a rule vs what we call balanced and unbalanced formations. For example. Against a balanced front such at Ace or Spread we will play it according to the pers that s being utilized. If the two inside receiver types are TE's we will roll the safeties down and play cover 8 which we call black on the field to alert the LB's that we are rolling down. We will hide it by showing a basic two shell. This allows ups to play with 9 in the box. If the two inside receiver types are what we call fast guys, we will play our orange cov which is cover 4 or we will play a cover 3 roll out of a two high look. We try to hide everything we do out of a two high look with our safeties.

When we run these coverages against what we call fast guys we will void the boundary side curl flat, and bring pressure in the face of the QB from the field. In this defense you are only limited by your lack of imagination. When ever we play cover 8 against the slow guys ie, TE's we are bring heat and if you are passing we want the ball out now. We will not allow the QB to hold the ball and make plays down field. We are basically telling him its three step or nothing. If your running the ball that's good for us we have 9 in the box. Against Fast guys do not be afraid to run some man under 2 deep. or some 1/4, 1/4, 1/2 against 11 pers or 3 X 1 groups. I am an aggressive coach so with whatever I do I will be bring heat/pressure of some kind, its my nature its who I am. The key Tech to employ when playing these coverages, is the press and get your hands on the receivers and never allow crossers they must get hit and be rerouted in when your playing off man cov. Hit everything Moving.

I hope this helps

Coach Minor

CoachMinor
Junior Member

Posts: 2

Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Feb 15, 2009 12:00:06 GMT

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Post by CoachMinor on Feb 15, 2009 12:00:06 GMT

If forgot to mention that you in any balanced formation i like to play cov 5 which is still in the framework of the man under 2 deep philosophy however, we use a bracket technique here. The inside underneath cover guy will carry the #2 inside receiver to the intermediate zone and release them to the 2 deep safeties. After inside cover guys curl up at a depth of 14-16 yrds they must get their eyes outside and look for crossers. Mike LB will hold the short middle for check down by the RB or play him m to m if he swings out of the back field. A note, Safeties cannot be to quick to retreat they must read the # 2 receivers pattern and pick him up. There should be minimal space between when the under cover guy carries the receive to the safety and when the safety picks the # 2 receiver up.

Coach Minor

Oneback
Senior Member

EMAIL: billmountjoy@yahoo.com

Posts: 6,036

Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Feb 16, 2009 12:03:49 GMT

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Post by Oneback on Feb 16, 2009 12:03:49 GMT

We run a 4-2-5 (which ADSJUSTS to a 4-3 vs. forms of "Trips"). Would be glad to discuss in detail if anyone wishes to phone me at 804-378-0116 (from 6 PM to 10 PM/EDT).

We got our version years ago from Jim Bates - who was HFC of the Miami Dolphins. Uses effective "Nickle Blitz" package.

Bill Mountjoy

Headbone2911
Junior Member

Posts: 2

Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Dec 6, 2011 20:41:02 GMT

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Post by Headbone2911 on Dec 6, 2011 20:41:02 GMT

Hey guys I am a new DC in my area and this will be my first year coordinating on the varsity level. I plan on installing the 4-2-5 defense. The delima I am in is I want to run the TCU style 4-2-5 but dont know the defensive signals to alot of their stunts like toro, away, ray, luke, boundary, tight, g, ect. If anyone has any hand signals that they use and you dont mind sharing please email them to me at Headbone29@hotmail.com any information you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Coach Griffin

Oneback
Senior Member

EMAIL: billmountjoy@yahoo.com

Posts: 6,036

Anyone run a 4-2-5 defense? Dec 10, 2011 9:31:29 GMT

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Post by Oneback on Dec 10, 2011 9:31:29 GMT

I DOUBT if anyone knows them, & TCU will NOI send out any materials.

We use NUMBERS for hand signals, & I got these from the Redskins. You can ADJUST them for both your O & D IF you use numbers rather than names:

HAND SIGNALS:

0 = RIGHT HAND FULLY EXTENDED ABOVE HEAD

1 = LEFT HAND FULLY EXTENDED ABOVE HEAD

2 = RIGHT HAND TOUCHING RIGHT EAR

3 = LEFT HAND TOUCHING LEFT EAR

4 = RIGHT HAND TOUCHING RIGHT SHOULDER

5 = LEFT HAND TOUCHING LEFT SHOULDER

6 = RIGHT HAND TOUCHING RIGHT HIP

7 = LEFT HAND TOUCHING LEFT HIP

8 = RIGHT HAND TOUCHING RIGHT KNEE

9 = LEFT HAND TOUCHING LEFT KNEE

EXAMPLE: "27" WOULD BE SIGNALLED BY: RIGHT HAND TOUCHING RIGHT EAR, FOLLOWED BY LEFT HAND TOUCHING LEFT HIP

************************************************************************

PS: Here are some notes I have on the TCU Blitz Package:

TCU BLITZ PACKAGE

4-2-5 PERSONNEL:
1. 4 DLM
2. 2 ILBers
3. 3 SAFETIES (S/S — F/S — W/S)
4. 2 Corners

COVERAGE:
Zero (0) is our term for man coverage. This is the coverage we use when blitzing. We use the terms "bail", "press", and "bump" following 0 to tell us the technique our Corners will use when playing man coverage. The basic count system is as follows, we will count from outside in 1, 2, 3. Only the read side can have a #3. Corners have #1 WR to their side. If there is no WR then he will flip over and count the next available WR (counting outside in). The Strong and Weak Safeties have #2 respectively to their sides. The Linebackers have #3 strong, #2 weak, if #2 is in the backfield. The Free Safety is free at this point with no one blitzing. Alignment for the linebackers is determined by the front call. The Safeties follow their zone alignment rules. The hardest point for the Safeties to learn is that the Free Safety may not be reading to passing strength. He is reading to the blitz side in most cases.

Blitz Terminology:
"Bullets" = Linebackers both blitz.
"Dogs" = Linebacker and Safety from the same side.
"Smokes" = Safety blitz.
"Mob" = Both Linebackers and both Safeties at the same side.
"Lions" = Safety blitz.
"Bullets Thunder" = Both Linbackers and TE side Safety.
"Bullets" tells both Linebackers to blitz. We signify in the call which gap the will run through.

CHECK THIS OUT ALSO:
brophyfootball.blogspot.com/search/label/Defense

billmountjoy@yahoo.com

Bill Mountjoy

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Post by Coach W on Feb 25, 2003 20:45:42 GMT

Post by Coach Campbell on Feb 26, 2003 6:43:45 GMT

Post by digz on Mar 19, 2003 15:38:18 GMT

Post by Superchief on Mar 20, 2003 14:59:05 GMT

Post by Lou Cella on Apr 7, 2003 17:05:01 GMT

Post by abarlament on Oct 30, 2003 18:52:31 GMT

Post by DC29 on Oct 31, 2003 22:16:07 GMT

Post by DC29 on Oct 31, 2003 22:16:25 GMT

Post by BROPHY on Nov 3, 2003 7:35:36 GMT

Post by jtallen on Nov 4, 2003 11:44:16 GMT

Post by run_n_hit on Dec 5, 2003 9:17:16 GMT

Post by greer_b14 on Mar 23, 2004 15:33:29 GMT

Post by zulu on Mar 23, 2004 16:27:44 GMT

Post by cdawg on Mar 30, 2004 9:05:47 GMT

Post by Superchief on Mar 30, 2004 14:54:34 GMT

Post by BROPHY on Mar 31, 2004 15:54:59 GMT

Post by cdawg on Mar 31, 2004 20:18:12 GMT

Post by center on Apr 8, 2004 20:07:38 GMT

Post by Superchief on Apr 9, 2004 4:02:12 GMT

Post by CoachMinor on Feb 15, 2009 11:40:21 GMT

Post by CoachMinor on Feb 15, 2009 12:00:06 GMT

Post by Oneback on Feb 16, 2009 12:03:49 GMT

Post by Headbone2911 on Dec 6, 2011 20:41:02 GMT

Post by Oneback on Dec 10, 2011 9:31:29 GMT

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