Choosing a Base Defense

HogCoach08
Member

Posts: 21

Choosing a Base Defense Mar 10, 2008 9:34:30 GMT

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Post by HogCoach08 on Mar 10, 2008 9:34:30 GMT

I am, and have always been an offensive guy. I enjoy coaching offense the most and feel that I know the ins and outs of offense much greater than I do defense.

However, I have recently applied for a Head Coaching job and if I get it (should know by the end of the week) I really need to spend some time solidifying my defensive philosophy. Right now I am flipping back and forth between an even (4-4) and odd (50) front and I understand the pros of them both.

What I'm looking for here are some people to give me some thoughts on their base defense and why they chose that specific front.

I have been reading/studying a lot on the 3-3 stack because I like the speed on the field, especially against a particular Wing-T team in our conference (see below) but I am concerned about the ability to stop the run with that front when teams come right at you, that is why I am looking at the more traditional 50 and 4-4 looks.

The offenses in our conference run from traditional I-Power (about half the conference), to Veer (1 team), Spread (probably 3 teams), and the Wing-T (1 team). The Wing-T team is FAR and AWAY the best team in our conference and has not lost a game in 3+ years. They have average to good linemen and exceptional skill players with great speed. Ultimately I want a defense that makes life difficult for them but is also sound vs. the rest of our conference.

I keep going back and forth on this issue and would love to read some other peoples' thoughts on the issue.

Thanks in advance,

Coach P.

frmrgriffinsafety
Senior Member

Posts: 216

Choosing a Base Defense Mar 10, 2008 10:07:26 GMT

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Post by frmrgriffinsafety on Mar 10, 2008 10:07:26 GMT

We run a 4-4 and have found that you can game plan moving into 30 and 50 fronts very easily when needed. We haven't used the 30 fronts a lot, but with the spread passing game becoming more prominent, we may dabble in it more. Coming out of college, I was a 4-3 guy. However, I have been thoroughly converted to a 4-4 for high school. It is a great system that allows for a lot of creativity and fits the high school game perfectly. The way we run it, the OLBs need to be excellent tacklers and almost a SS type of kid. Just my two cents. You have to find something that makes you comfortable.

One more thing, the spread teams you face, are they spreading you out looking to run or pass? That's something else to think about when you play them.

Defensive Back- Canisius College-4 yrs.

Assistant Coach - Bishop Grimes High School- 2 years

Assistant Coach - Cheektowaga Central High School- 5 years

"Failing to prepare is preparing to fail." -John Wooden

"I firmly believe that any many's finest hour is that moment when he has worked his heart out for a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle, victorious." - Vince Lombardi

Oneback
Senior Member

EMAIL: billmountjoy@yahoo.com

Posts: 6,223

Choosing a Base Defense Mar 10, 2008 11:40:57 GMT

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Post by Oneback on Mar 10, 2008 11:40:57 GMT

ADVANTAGES of 4-2-5 (AKA 4-4)

1. IT IS A BALANCED DEFENSE WITH 4 PLAYERS TO EACH SIDE THUS MAKING IT MUCH EASIER TO ADJUST TO ANY OFFENSIVE FORMATION OR MOTION.

2. WE FEEL WE NEED 4 MEN ON EACH SIDE OF THE BALL TO STOP OPTION OFFENSES.

3. IT LIMITS THE EFFECTIVENESS OF PRACTICALLY ALL SPLIT-END OFFENSES.

4. IT LIMITS THE OFF-TACKLE PLAY BECAUSE IT TAKES AWAY THE DOUBLE TEAM BLOCK.

5. IT IS A GREAT CONTAIN DEFENSE WITH OLB's IN A "TRUE END" POSITION.

6. IT HELPS LIMIT THE INSIDE OFFENSE BECAUSE THEY HAVE JUST 3 MEN IN EFFECTIVE POSITION TO BLOCK YOUR 4 IN THE MIDDLE - THUS FORCING TEAMS TO RUN OUTSIDE WHERE THEY HAVE A ONE-ON-ONE BLOCKING SCHEME.

7. NO DEFENSIVE PLAYER HAS OVER ONE GAP AS HIS RESPONSIBILITY.

8. IT GIVES YOU A BETTER PASS RUSH, AND, STUNTING PACKAGE BY ALLOWING YOU TO SEND 4 PLAYERS TO EITHER SIDE.

9. WE ARE ABLE TO PLAY EVERY PASS COVERAGE THE 4 DEEP TEAMS PLAY.

Bill Mountjoy

TIGER ONE
Senior Member

Posts: 6,423

Choosing a Base Defense Mar 10, 2008 13:44:36 GMT

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Post by TIGER ONE on Mar 10, 2008 13:44:36 GMT

Having run a 4-2-5 base for 20 years plus, would add to Bill's excellent list that one of the main attractions for me to go to it in relation to keeping the field balanced all the time, was the fact that your OSLB's have contain and that frees up the CB's to do their number one job which is pass defend, of course. They can get run off and you still have that OSLB sitting there for contain! In my system, we allude to the OSLB's as DB's and not LB's thus we are in a nickel at all times. When we go to a dime package, we trade out a LB for another true DB as most teams do. We have 25 or so different fronts counting our 50 package, but when the game is on the line you will find us in our 4-2-5 the vast majority of the time.

Coach Easton-TIGER ONE

J.C. EASTON<BR>HEAD COACH<BR>GA TIGERS FOOTBALL<BR>PROFESSIONAL MINOR LEAGUE

HogCoach08
Member

Posts: 21

Choosing a Base Defense Mar 11, 2008 9:03:44 GMT

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Post by HogCoach08 on Mar 11, 2008 9:03:44 GMT

Since all that replied are even front guys I have a couple of questions for you 4-4 (4-2-5) guys. Some are simple and trivial but I am curious as to how people do things, some hopefully aren't so trivial.

1.
Do you go with roleplayers across the board or do you play sides. For example, is a nose always a nose or are the two interior guys responsible for right and left and line up as a 2i or 3 depending on the offensive alignment? Same with the ends, inside backers, outside backers (or Hybrid type safeties for the 4-2-5) guys, do you align anybody to a side and force them to know both roles or do you use strict roleplayers?

2. (Probably a trivial question)
What do you name your positions? Specifically linebackers (Mike, Sam, Will, etc..) but also the other positions. Some have a different name for the strong side End and weakside End, what do you name that 4th backer? I am always curious what people name things and I think naming is important to make transitioning to different fronts easier.

3.
I am under the impression that most even front teams line their strong side End up on an inside shade of the Tight End. However, I've seen some schools (and heard Coach Backus of Temple talk on this) line their strong End up on the outside shade of the Tight End and play more of an upfield technique. Does anybody else do this? If so, what is the reasoning for using the DE as an upfield player instead of having the strongside outside backer (or Strong Safety) be the contain guy? The only thing I can think of is that is keeps technique consistent when moving between odd and even fronts.

I think thats about it for now.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Coach P.

frmrgriffinsafety
Senior Member

Posts: 216

Choosing a Base Defense Mar 11, 2008 9:44:13 GMT

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Post by frmrgriffinsafety on Mar 11, 2008 9:44:13 GMT

O.k. I'll do my best to answer all of your questions.....

1. We play sides with our DEs, OLBs, and ILBs. However, people will trade strength so, they have to know what do do for both strong and weak sides. For the OLBs, it isn't any different. We just want the better run defender to the strength when possible. Our DTs align to the strength and defensive call (Strong, Weak, Tight, Wide). Overall, our personnell philosophy was summed up perfectly by the Rhode Island DC, who we saw at a clinic this year. We look for "a pair and a spare" at each defensive spot. That means that we have two that start and play the majority of snaps (2DE, 2OLB, 2DT, 2ILB, 2C) and one guy who can backup either position, strong or weak side. We don't flop our corners. They play their side no matter field, boundary, strong, weak. It doesn't matter.

2. Naming is interesting. I always wonder the same things and when I see speakers at clinics, I try to do their diagrams translated to our language. As for what we do, here we go, DE - Strong End (strong), Quick End (weak). ILB - Sam (strong), Mike (weak). OLB - Apache (strong), Will (weak). Apache is because our school mascot is Warriors. Typically the Apache moves down when we move to a 50 front and plays the 7 tech. However, 2 years ago I moved the Sam down to the third DT and pushed out the SE. It was a better fit than the Apache we had because the Sam had previously played DT. When we move to a 30 front, the Quick stands up and plays next to the Mike with the Will outside of him.

3. We don't do that. For the most part we keep the SE in a 6 tech unless we feel it's advantagous to us to move him out against a certain team. We play our OLBs 4 x 4 on the EMLOS, so there is no advantage gained in contain by moving the SE wide.

Defensive Back- Canisius College-4 yrs.

Assistant Coach - Bishop Grimes High School- 2 years

Assistant Coach - Cheektowaga Central High School- 5 years

"Failing to prepare is preparing to fail." -John Wooden

"I firmly believe that any many's finest hour is that moment when he has worked his heart out for a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle, victorious." - Vince Lombardi

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Post by HogCoach08 on Mar 10, 2008 9:34:30 GMT

Post by frmrgriffinsafety on Mar 10, 2008 10:07:26 GMT

Post by Oneback on Mar 10, 2008 11:40:57 GMT

Post by TIGER ONE on Mar 10, 2008 13:44:36 GMT

Post by HogCoach08 on Mar 11, 2008 9:03:44 GMT

Post by frmrgriffinsafety on Mar 11, 2008 9:44:13 GMT

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