defending outside veer

groundgame
Junior Member

Posts: 9

defending outside veer Oct 15, 2008 18:53:16 GMT

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Post by groundgame on Oct 15, 2008 18:53:16 GMT

How do you defend outside veer with the following defensive alignments?

9 tech over TE
5 tech,
Shade Nose
Backer at a 30 Tech

They double the 5 with TE and OT, They double the shade nose with OG and Center. They read the 9, but the course of the dive back looks as if he is hitting the open window , but slide behind the double team of the 5 tech.

Thanks!!

coach4Christ
Member

Posts: 53

defending outside veer Oct 16, 2008 5:31:51 GMT

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Post by coach4Christ on Oct 16, 2008 5:31:51 GMT

30 LB scrape over the top of the double team for dive, 9 Tech take the QB, FS play pitch. Make sure the backside ILB is in a 10 tech to fast flow to playside B gap for a cutback. You could also squeeze the dive back with your 9 tech and scrape to QB with the ILB depending on what suits your people the best.

Oneback
Senior Member

EMAIL: billmountjoy@yahoo.com

Posts: 6,054

defending outside veer Oct 16, 2008 13:32:45 GMT

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Post by Oneback on Oct 16, 2008 13:32:45 GMT

9 technique has to take the FIRST THREAT OUTSIDE THE DT WITH THE BALL - thus - he has FB. ILB seeing wide path of FB on outside veer scrapes to QB (downhill from a depth of 4 to 4 1/2 yds.). F/S in alley ALSO has QB. Secondary run force has pitch!

A great pressure stunt to the TE side is to have the S/S crash off the edge towards the near back in a "squeeze contain" mode yhru the D gap; the DE (from head up on the TE) slant thru the C gap; the DT (from head up on the OT) slant thru the B gap; the ILB read & mirror the near back. Really "tears up" the Outside & Inside Veer! (Play Cover 0 M/M behind it).

PS: If you need to DISCUSS this - phone me at 804-378-0116 (up to 10 PM/EDT)!

Bill Mountjoy

jrkelly
Senior Member

Posts: 820

defending outside veer Oct 17, 2008 20:14:41 GMT

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Post by jrkelly on Oct 17, 2008 20:14:41 GMT

Coach Mountjoy has it exactly right--as one would expect. DE has to take the dive on outside veer, ILB has to scrape to the QB. It is a pain in the rear, and you need a good ILB to do this. Outside veer is meant to put a ton of pressure on the edge of your defense. If you don't want this play to kill you, you have to keep their tackle from moving the LOS. Might want to move into a 5-3 type look (or 3-5, if you like). Get another man over that tackle so the ILB doesn't have to scrape that distance, start to cheat or overpursue, and leave inside veer or cutback wide open.

Ryan Kelly
Offensive Coordinator
Austin High School
Austin, MN

There is nothing that will show a man's true character like the 2 yard line.

allisojh Member Posts: 149	defending outside veer Oct 20, 2008 10:55:31 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by allisojh on Oct 20, 2008 10:55:31 GMT Oneback, What is your e-mail. I have some quick questions and looking for some of your handouts. Thanks!

Oneback Senior Member EMAIL: billmountjoy@yahoo.com Posts: 6,054	defending outside veer Oct 20, 2008 13:30:02 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Oneback on Oct 20, 2008 13:30:02 GMT EXACTLY what do you BASE out of. Veer defense should fit into that package! PHONE: 804-378-0116 (up to 9 PM/EDT)
	Bill Mountjoy

groundgame
Junior Member

Posts: 9

defending outside veer Oct 25, 2008 16:48:48 GMT

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Post by groundgame on Oct 25, 2008 16:48:48 GMT

It didn't work. We had our ILB (30 Tech) attempt to fit over as our 9 technique collapsed on dive. They ran the split T and his course looked as if he was coming directly at the ILB (30 Tech). He froze for a second and coudn't get over top. When he did get over top, they doubled the shaded nose, doubled the 5 technique and simply gave it to the dive back directly through A gap.

Our only success stopping the play was rolling our coverage and putting the rolled safety on QB and letting the ILB fill open windows, etc.

we lost by a touchdown because we couldn't stop this play---need help!

Also, they would run ISV to the 3 tech side (no TE). They would double the 3 tech , read the DE-- the twins guy would come in full motion and crack our ILB who was attempting to play over the top to QB.

Our safety didn't do his job filling the alley, but there has to be an answer.

We also tried stopping outside veer with a 7 tech and 2 tech. They ran- midline, but arc their OG to backer and our DT took dive-- because he was trained throuh 1000s of repetitions to do so, and the ILB filled B gap- The ILB met the folding TE/Wing or even Arc released OG.

Any ideas?

jrkelly
Senior Member

Posts: 820

defending outside veer Oct 25, 2008 19:40:10 GMT

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Post by jrkelly on Oct 25, 2008 19:40:10 GMT

Sounds to me like you did stop the play, but they countered your adjustment. A well structured veer offense that can attack all holes and throw the ball is execeptionally difficult to stop. When we ran split back veer the defense that gave us the most problems was the 5-3 where there was good players in outside shade of the G that demanded a double team and had a wide DE crashing down to the meshpoint hard. Problem is, you are suceptable to the quick passing game. A 5-2 where you have the play-side safeties filling the lane hard and playing QB through to pitch. I truly believe the best way to stop outside veer is to cover the tackles so they are not able to downblock to the LB's. When it's all said and done, you have to win the battles in the trenches.

Ryan Kelly
Offensive Coordinator
Austin High School
Austin, MN

There is nothing that will show a man's true character like the 2 yard line.

Oneback
Senior Member

EMAIL: billmountjoy@yahoo.com

Posts: 6,054

defending outside veer Oct 27, 2008 12:28:29 GMT

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Post by Oneback on Oct 27, 2008 12:28:29 GMT

Groundgame - if you care to contact me at either: billmountjoy@yahoo.com OR 804-716-7038 - I will send you the DETAILS of playing the veer (which are too many to post on the site).

The way Coach Kelly & I described it is the way EVERY great "50" coach I ever knew played vs. it.

Of course - NO scheme can beat a team that overpowers you physically, plays with more intensity, and executes better. If a coach takes care of THESE THINGS FIRST - scheme become EASY!

Last Edit: Nov 3, 2021 0:03:00 GMT by Oneback

Bill Mountjoy

Caveman
Senior Member

Posts: 258

defending outside veer Oct 27, 2008 12:49:51 GMT

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Post by Caveman on Oct 27, 2008 12:49:51 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by: groundgame
It didn't work. We had our ILB (30 Tech) attempt to fit over as our 9 technique collapsed on dive. They ran the split T and his course looked as if he was coming directly at the ILB (30 Tech). He froze for a second and coudn't get over top. When he did get over top, they doubled the shaded nose, doubled the 5 technique and simply gave it to the dive back directly through A gap.

How did they account for the backside ILB? He should make that play when the playside LB scrapes over the top.

Scott Orndoff
Varsity Assistant
Williamsville East High School
Williamsville, NY

Caveman
Senior Member

Posts: 258

defending outside veer Oct 27, 2008 12:55:14 GMT

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Post by Caveman on Oct 27, 2008 12:55:14 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by: groundgame

Also, they would run ISV to the 3 tech side (no TE). They would double the 3 tech , read the DE-- the twins guy would come in full motion and crack our ILB who was attempting to play over the top to QB.

Any ideas?

What is your adjustment to Twins?

Scott Orndoff
Varsity Assistant
Williamsville East High School
Williamsville, NY

groundgame
Junior Member

Posts: 9

defending outside veer Oct 27, 2008 13:13:50 GMT

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Post by groundgame on Oct 27, 2008 13:13:50 GMT

Coach,

I subscribe to the keep it simple principle. Our backside ILB was simply not getting it done.
When they went twins and cracked our 30 technique, we widend our DE -- he took QB and had the 30 technique take dive-- they had to double the 3 tech. which meant that our 30 technique was untouched to dive. I should have went in with this from the get go. From now on, I will.

I would really like to know how you to defend outside veer to a 3 tech and 8 tech side with a 30 tech ILB. I want the 8 tech to take qb, and the 30 tech to take dive. Any ideas... This game, I moved the normal 8 tech to a 7 tech and he collapsed when the OT whent down and took dive and the 30 attempted to fit over the top. However, they arc released the TE or brought motion in and cracked that 30 tech.

I figure the 8 technique will squeeze on the down block of the TE and go directly to AB. The 30 technique will recognize the double team of the 3 tech and fill for dive. However, he needs to address the down block of the TE.

?

Caveman
Senior Member

Posts: 258

defending outside veer Oct 27, 2008 14:05:55 GMT

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Post by Caveman on Oct 27, 2008 14:05:55 GMT

If you are playing cover 2 behind this, I do not see how you can play a 3, 8 and 30 to this. The TE has too good an angle on your 30 tech, as you note.

If you stick with the 5, 9 and 1 techs, look at the post by "coach4christ" above.

I like your idea of forcing the give. Just keep in the original alignment (1,5 and 9 techs strong), SLB fills outside the 5 tech, WLB fills inside.

Scott Orndoff
Varsity Assistant
Williamsville East High School
Williamsville, NY

jrkelly
Senior Member

Posts: 820

defending outside veer Oct 27, 2008 17:32:01 GMT

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Post by jrkelly on Oct 27, 2008 17:32:01 GMT

Agreed with caveman...Cover the Tackle on the outside veer side--at very least put someone on his inside shade. There is too big of a bubble to run at if you have a man on covering the TE and you have nobody covering the OT--a LB can't make that play without a body in front of him. I've run the veer for years, and against outside veer, you MUST cover the tackles...but, a good coach can counter that if he has the athletes to do it. There is a reason that De La Salle and Coach Ladouceur in Concord, CA rolled off 150+ consecutive wins with this offense.

Ryan Kelly
Offensive Coordinator
Austin High School
Austin, MN

There is nothing that will show a man's true character like the 2 yard line.

groundgame Junior Member Posts: 9	defending outside veer Oct 30, 2008 15:30:19 GMT Oneback likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by groundgame on Oct 30, 2008 15:30:19 GMT Coach Mountjoy-- The information that you sent me regarding defending the veer was EXCELLENT!!! I wish I could play the game again right now!!! thanks again, John

ramcoachj
Junior Member

Posts: 11

defending outside veer Oct 30, 2008 17:11:03 GMT

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Post by ramcoachj on Oct 30, 2008 17:11:03 GMT

we run the veer and also have to defend it yearly. the defense coaches mountjoy and kelly suggested are sound.

one thing to keep in mind however is how many times a year you see a veer team and how many days you have to prepare. i have found that if you are trying to get kids ready to defend a veer team with midline, isv & osv and you have a different set of rules for each and are trying to teach that in normal weeks prep time it can be tough.

coach j

groundgame
Junior Member

Posts: 9

defending outside veer Oct 31, 2008 12:20:56 GMT

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Post by groundgame on Oct 31, 2008 12:20:56 GMT

Coach--
That is the thing with my defense-- I never change a thing. This has caused some problems over the years, but usually it doesn't. We simply squeeze and wrong arm EVERYTHING!!! and spill the ball. The outside Veer has given me fits because our 9 tech collapses and we never had the QB properly covered. I don't beleive the secondary is a good place to start with primary run support-- it must come from the front 7.

Thanks coaches!!!!!

Oneback
Senior Member

EMAIL: billmountjoy@yahoo.com

Posts: 6,054

defending outside veer Oct 12, 2009 16:40:32 GMT

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Post by Oneback on Oct 12, 2009 16:40:32 GMT

We also had (important) "COMMON SENSE RULE" for options. Here it is:

IN EACH DEFENSE A PLAYER IS ASSIGNED A SPECIFIC PART OF THE OPTION. THEN ADD ON TO THEIR RULE THE WORDS "OR THE FIRST MAN TO SHOW WITH THE BALL". THUS, IF I AM A DEFENSIVE END WHOSE MAIN RESPONSIBILITY IS QUARTERBACK ON THE OPTION, MY RULE IS: QB OR THE FIRST MAN THAT CHALLENGES ME WITH THE BALL. BY DOING THIS SHOULD A BLOCKING SCHEME OR PLAY CAUSE OUR OPTION COVERAGE TO BREAK DOWN AT A GIVEN POINT, PLAYERS SHOULD BE READY TO MAKE THE NECESSARY ADJUSTMENT.

Bill Mountjoy

jrkelly Senior Member Posts: 820	defending outside veer Oct 13, 2009 6:59:00 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by jrkelly on Oct 13, 2009 6:59:00 GMT "should" being the operative word here whenever you are working with HS kids!
	Ryan Kelly Offensive Coordinator Austin High School Austin, MN There is nothing that will show a man's true character like the 2 yard line.

Oneback
Senior Member

EMAIL: billmountjoy@yahoo.com

Posts: 6,054

defending outside veer Oct 22, 2009 15:29:55 GMT

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Post by Oneback on Oct 22, 2009 15:29:55 GMT

From having worked with college kids as well - their attention span is hardly any different.

My experiences in as a PLAYER in a 9 technique, as well as COACHING it in HS & College - you have to have the "COMMON SENSE RULE" vs. the Houston Style Split Back Veer.

A) if TE arcs secondary run support - the 9 technique must take the QB on INSIDE VEER.

B) if TE down blocks the 5 technique - the 9 technique must take the FB Dive on OUTSIDE VEER.

The "COMMON SENSE RULE" enables you to do this with ease.

George Hill - great "DC"at Ohio St. in the ERA of the VEER (late 1960's & 1970's) was GREAT at defending the Veer with this simple rule. Lou Holtz was on that staff too, & used those principles. Hill wrote a classic paper on defending the Splitback Veer & Wishbone! (AFTER he left College ball to join the Eagles staff in the NFL).

Bill Mountjoy

jrkelly Senior Member Posts: 820	defending outside veer Oct 22, 2009 19:48:18 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by jrkelly on Oct 22, 2009 19:48:18 GMT Funny how common sense seems to be the answer to nearly everything...even football. We need a little more common sense in our world all around!
	Ryan Kelly Offensive Coordinator Austin High School Austin, MN There is nothing that will show a man's true character like the 2 yard line.

Oneback Senior Member EMAIL: billmountjoy@yahoo.com Posts: 6,054	defending outside veer Oct 23, 2009 19:52:22 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Oneback on Oct 23, 2009 19:52:22 GMT I believe in the old adage that "winners don't win - losers lose". Too many teams beat themselves with "dumb mistakes".
	Bill Mountjoy

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Post by groundgame on Oct 15, 2008 18:53:16 GMT

Post by coach4Christ on Oct 16, 2008 5:31:51 GMT

Post by Oneback on Oct 16, 2008 13:32:45 GMT

Post by jrkelly on Oct 17, 2008 20:14:41 GMT

Post by allisojh on Oct 20, 2008 10:55:31 GMT

Post by Oneback on Oct 20, 2008 13:30:02 GMT

Post by groundgame on Oct 25, 2008 16:48:48 GMT

Post by jrkelly on Oct 25, 2008 19:40:10 GMT

Post by Oneback on Oct 27, 2008 12:28:29 GMT

Post by Caveman on Oct 27, 2008 12:49:51 GMT

Post by Caveman on Oct 27, 2008 12:55:14 GMT

Post by groundgame on Oct 27, 2008 13:13:50 GMT

Post by Caveman on Oct 27, 2008 14:05:55 GMT

Post by jrkelly on Oct 27, 2008 17:32:01 GMT

Post by groundgame on Oct 30, 2008 15:30:19 GMT

Post by ramcoachj on Oct 30, 2008 17:11:03 GMT

Post by groundgame on Oct 31, 2008 12:20:56 GMT

Post by Oneback on Oct 12, 2009 16:40:32 GMT

Post by jrkelly on Oct 13, 2009 6:59:00 GMT

Post by Oneback on Oct 22, 2009 15:29:55 GMT

Post by jrkelly on Oct 22, 2009 19:48:18 GMT

Post by Oneback on Oct 23, 2009 19:52:22 GMT

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