Installing Today’s Hybrid Pistol Offense Run & Pass from Top to Bottom
This manual provides you with the full offensive line, receiver, and quarterback mechanics for installing each offensive play presented. Coach Campbell has left no stone unturned for implementing today’s Pistol Offense into your program.
How do you guys handle Off tackle Iso to the TE with a smaller type DE?
I will use Pro I as the formation.
ISO Off tackle play:
TE/OT combo Tackle and the stacked backer
OG/Center combo Nose and his stacked backer
FB kicks out or logs the OLB depending on how he plays it
IB runs C gap if its a kick or Stretch if FB logs.
How do you defend it through scheme and your teaching techniques?
Pinch the front and bring the Flank(9 tech) underneath into c gap, this will allow your Stack Backer and FS to play the bounce. If the OT does not honor the 4 tech that is slanting across his face, the 4 tech will penetrate and disrupt the play. If he does not honor this, the Flank will become the disruptive variable...Pick your Poison
This is really the crux of this defense. If a good iso team is patient, they can cause fits. You have to shift/blitz/stunt or you are hung out to dry. My best advice is similar to Ack, reduce into a more traditional 5 front-type look. If your DE's are simply blowing by the OT, you are going to have issues no matter what you do, though. Best thing is to work keys so that backers know immediately where they are going and they can come downhill hard and fast!
Ryan Kelly
Offensive Coordinator
Austin High School
Austin, MN
There is nothing that will show a man's true character like the 2 yard line.
Post by West Lynn Zoo on Apr 22, 2009 13:36:30 GMT
There are a number of blitzes you can dial up! I like to slant the D Line weak ( in case You guess wrong) with the playside stack backer blitzing C-Gap and the OLB blitzing off the edge... Open- Boom- Black! Just make sure that whatever blitz you send in, has the correct coverage behind it, because like I said. You may guess wrong.
EVERY single team we play that runs this Defense can not stop ISO to the TE.
You said you would pinch the 4/5 tech but it makes it even easier for our tackle to wash him down and the TE to move up levels to the backer. your small OLB playing off the line is candy to our FBs.
I think this 33 is good against the spread type stuff but we just go DT I and run off tackle to the cows some home.
I am not boasting but.... what do you all do??
I would suspect you plug in a Big DE if you have it or start taking chances with slanting.
Maybe I am missing something but Off-tackle is the weakness and its a huge one.
We had a lot of problems with that too, our Dt would get doubled by the TE and tackle to the sam and our OLB would get waxed by a big fullback, we had success playing the Dt on a 4 or 5 and bringing either the sam or the olb head up on the te and stacking behind him. We played a lot of games with the OLB and the Sam. It took away the double team on the tackle and made them block us 1 0n 1. It obviously turns the defense into a 5-3 not a 3-5 but it keeps your guys from getting torched.
Post by West Lynn Zoo on Apr 23, 2009 17:19:34 GMT
My 2 best guys are those outside backers! And I would be in man to man. So Im blitzing the stack backer into the C-Gap and the OLB off the edge on a contain blitz to the deepest Back. Its actually Zero coverage (BLACK) with the FS replacing the blitzing OLB in coverage. So the FS has that #2 reciever (the Tightend) man to man. When my Free Safety reads that downblock by the tightend... Here he comes too. D line slanting weak. Thats Open-Boom-Black!! Send it in, Baby!
Post by West Lynn Zoo on Apr 23, 2009 17:42:31 GMT
I suppose pinching the line rather then slanting weak is a better option, that way the guard doesnt just get right to my Mike. In fact it works out much much better with a pinch without question. Your Guard wont get a clean block on the Mike. Mike helps bust that sh&t up!
Originally posted by: allisojh EVERY single team we play that runs this Defense can not stop ISO to the TE.
You said you would pinch the 4/5 tech but it makes it even easier for our tackle to wash him down and the TE to move up levels to the backer. your small OLB playing off the line is candy to our FBs.
I think this 33 is good against the spread type stuff but we just go DT I and run off tackle to the cows some home.
I am not boasting but.... what do you all do??
I would suspect you plug in a Big DE if you have it or start taking chances with slanting.
Maybe I am missing something but Off-tackle is the weakness and its a huge one.
I agree....You must make a personnel change to a Heavier kid(on the Flank)...
When we see the DB's creeping up to get into the ISO, we run the Play action ISO pass.
Its a flood route and the X fly is the homerun.
People said "pick your poison". We say the same thing.
We ran ISO left and right out of Double Tight against 30 stack teams until the cows came home. When they bring the safeties into play, play action usually loosens them back up.
Post by West Lynn Zoo on Apr 24, 2009 11:32:13 GMT
Good luck. We would be in man to man. Zero coverage (Black) on this play actually. My weakside OLB is coming off the other edge. My OLBs have the #2 recievers in man to man cvg. Our coverage rules for the OLBs is that if the #2 is in the backfield.. thats an automatic contain blitz. Good luck on that fly pattern and dont get that QB killed with my 6 man rush! If Im gonna die... Im going out with my boots on.
I agree wholeheartedly with your take. I used to love the 33 until I actually had to run it. I still love it against the spread--I don't think there's anything better. However, I hate it against power football. A patient attack from a disciplined team will simply bludgen a 33 right down the field--unless they start guessing--and that's either a 2 yd loss or 60 yd gain! I like those odds!
Ryan Kelly
Offensive Coordinator
Austin High School
Austin, MN
There is nothing that will show a man's true character like the 2 yard line.
Post by West Lynn Zoo on Apr 25, 2009 15:17:29 GMT
I dont know if it makes a difference. Im talking about a 3-5-3 defense. Not a 3-3-5. Personel is way different. I have an * man front for a reason and it isnt to get beat by the run. I dont know what planet you are from... But if you send in an off tackle run and I call the blitz that I explained. Your gonna get your feelings hurt.
Post by West Lynn Zoo on Apr 25, 2009 19:35:31 GMT
With my OLB coming hard off the edge untouched... The fullback is getting collisioned right now!! With the stack backer the mike and the FS helping. U can talk about your X fly pattern all day. The original post was about off tackle. And it just got blown up! Better luck next time.
The only way you can really stop it in a true 3-3-5 or 3-5-3 (whatever u want to call it it all is the same just different sized kids) is if you get into 0 coverage and use the FS as the fill player arc inside out to the ball carrier. He becomes your bonus player. You cant count on the mike getting their because it is to easy for him to get picked off by front side linemen or the BS guard skip pulling on power o.
Thats why you see most college teams incorporating alot of even front 4-3, 4-2-5 into their stack defenses (EX. Rocky Long (SDSU), Ron Roberts (Delta State) because it is so hard to defend power football in the true stack.
And Most of us dont have the players to be in 0 blitz the whole game just to stop one play.
As far as the blitz described by WEst Lynn Zoo its going to be really hit or miss to guess when to use that blitz. I dont think you can go in with that as your game plan against every team that runs power (most do).
And alot of people now a days run power as an A gap and out play. Meaning the back will read from the A gap out looking for a place to hit it (CAL Northern Illinois, and UNC all run it this way). So the edge pressure is not necessarily a huge deal unless the offense is running track power which is old school. If it does become a problem you can work to log the edge pressure (more then likely the force) and look to bounce the football.
Since the power is a gap play the stunting of the line wont be a problem at all.
TE and Tackle will look to double the 4 tech. When the 4 tech goes away into the b gap the tackle will block him down the tightend will work to LB (your C gap blitz) the guard will look to double the nose to backside tackle LB and and the BS G will skip pull to Mike.
Thats why my answer is get into a 40 front thats what we had to do.
I think the point to the start of this thread is to see if people have trouble with power football in a "base" 335/353. I think the answer is definitely yes. True, the 30 stack is predicated around blitz packages, and blitzes can be schemed from any front to stop any run play. The defense is sound, but it has its weaknesses, just like anything else. If you have the "right" personnel, you can probably deal with anything that is thrown at you, but offenses work the same way--If they have the "right" personnel, they can dictate what is happening too. That's what makes this game what it is. If your system is working, use it!
Ryan Kelly
Offensive Coordinator
Austin High School
Austin, MN
There is nothing that will show a man's true character like the 2 yard line.
B and $ are contain players unless we are running somthing, S has #2 to strength and W has #2 weak. W is playing cutback and N and M have A gaps. We would try to get away with cover 1 if they are a throwing threat, otherwise we'd run cover 0. Really, if you can't stop it with this you are probably in trouble no matter what defense you run. No scheme can protect you if your DT is getting washed 3-4 yds back.
You are way to sensitive and naive with your post:
With my OLB coming hard off the edge untouched... The fullback is getting collisioned right now!! With the stack backer the mike and the FS helping. U can talk about your X fly pattern all day. The original post was about off tackle. And it just got blown up! Better luck next time.
Do you think I will run this once and say "gee whiz this guy is a guru better stop running ISO". Power ISO takes your OLB or FS, depending how we block it, out of commission. But... ISO is the play and I will put my 200lb FB anyday against a OLB especially when I run it at him 20 times a game. Also... if your FS is screwing down that much its only a matter of time before the TE runs right by him in play action.
Another "telling" quote from West Lyn Zoo and it was your first post:
There are a number of blitzes you can dial up!
The second I hear "blitzing" is the answer to stop the running game I know I got you beat. I asked my same question to a guy in a 30 stack clinic. When I got "We blitz" I almost fell off the chair. He called it "having balls". I called it a major opportunity and would be fired by my HFC if my answer to him on stopping ISO and Power was "we got to have balls.... we blitz".
If you have to sell out your defense like that to stop a base run play, I got you.
If you are a power football team, you know what I am talking about.
Anyway no one took you to school. You are just way to sensitive. Everyone is offering their observations, experiences, and what works for them. Its why I started the thread.
Every defense has its weaknesses. IMHO you have to find a way to strengthen the weaknesses WITHOUT blitzing or you will be in for a long day against a methodic ISO team.
You won't be sucessfull in the course of a game and especially when tape gets out showing all the blitzing you do to stop it. Most power football teams are just going to be patient, chew up clock, suck everyone closer and closer to the LOS then play action.
I just wanted to listen to 335, 353, 30 stack, coaches speak on stopping ISO off tackle because the 335, 353 teams we play against don't have a big kid in a 9 tech jamming my TE and wrong arming the FB with the monster SS right behind him like teams that ran 52 monster. Now the 215lb DE is a 180lb OLB, he is a couple yards back off the ball and no one is behind him. 52 monster always did a gob against Power and ISO to the TE side. We would go DT then run ISO and Power away from the Monster so we would get a corner to deal with rather than the monster. Greenough's adjustment give a quasi 52 monster look which hwoud make it tough to make the Double teams we are looking for PLUS it allows the DE to blow up the FB and still have 3 guys back to read and play play action FB/TE/X.
33, 30 stack, etc... sound great against spread teams. I even run a 3 man front 34 defense against the spread teams but to this day the only adjustment I saw was Greenough's adjustment. Thanks, it rang a bell!!! with the Monster's we used to tangle with.
Lighten up Zoo... we're supposed to be helping one another!!!
Attack the bubbles in any kind of odd front is what I was taught to do offensively so ISO and a power running game make great sense against this type of defense.
We would try our "solid" front, moving our Mike to a tightside 7 tech. with his hand down, if we're getting beat up off tackle. As pointed out, any defense has certain vulnerabilities as none has ever been devised that can defend everything all the time (at least not to my knowledge nor any of the coaches I've been fortunate enough to learn from).
Dave Hartman
CYFL Coach
"It's not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters."