Given a 5-3 need help

That's not a odd-front defense. That's a reduced 44. Should be solid against the run, but unless you have a ton of trap or inside dive option, I'd get those DT's (at least the strong side) out into an outside shade on the guard. If I am an option team I'd run a ton of load option against this, especially if your DL have a history of just taking up space; if I'm a pass happy team, the sky's the limit. Honestly, with this look I'd make sure that my "L" is an OLB and look into some 44 and 42 defensive scheming. That's basically what you have here.

Lots of stuff on here about the 4-2 and 4-4 which is really what you have. Tiger one posted tons of stuff on it. I've also read a lot of things about robber coverage out of the 4-2. Coach Mountjoy has a ton of info on it and if you call him he seems to be very willing to talk football. His info is in about 100 different places on here.
www.jcfb.com/forum/mess..._key=y&keyword1=robber

Silly question? Where is the 11th offensive player? I assume that he is on the LOS Wide?

In either case you havent been handed a 5-3 you've been handed a 4-4 and a bit of a strange look with the safety so far over. Be that as it may, against a Spread team I would still dare them to throw from a 4-2 Cover 3 (Mike has deep Middle) Tampa Drop.

IMHO A 5-3 is not a great defense to run against the Spread especially if they throw well. 5-2 Monster maybe with Twins.

My thoughts are that I can Zone everything under maintaining my run presence, and forcing the QB to be dead nuts accurate under and over. At least then I can play down hill facing the backfield. Any errant passes will be picked and the receivers arent running anyone off the play. Why do I say this? Because a lot of teams will Spread you out to run the ball or throw short routes. Dink and Dunk works fine until they run out of real estate, then what?

On the other hand if you have good cover corners and dont mind losing the run support, I would Jam the Snot out of the receivers with the Corners taking away the outside release. Be prepared for the Wheel Route from the Slots especially if your Corners are keeping the Receivers from coming off the LOS.

CoachDfromPA: My biggest concern against option is to the weak side. With the DE playing B Gap it will be hard for them to force the Qb to pitch unless they get great penetration and manage to get into the QB's path.

JFLCOACH: I actually moved the SS over a bit because in their COVER 0 look he has #2 receiver strong side. He was way out flanked for any type of outside release by the TE.

CoachFord79: In your "tight" look do you still have your 9 technique OLB cover #2 strong? It seems like he could easily be put into conflict alot (whether to run contain or cover the TE) if the TE is releasing inside for crossing routes. Also what about teams that use a slot or a wing in the #2 spot? My "L" might not be athletic enough to hang with him

I have never done it, but is it possible to run cover two with your CB's playing the deep halves?? Just trying to make as few as adjustments as possible.

Inverting the Corners is exactly what I would do against a Spread team. Quite Frankly, I run it that way all the time. I dont really have Safeties. However, I do see a need for them at the higher levels because the passing accuracy increases 10 fold.

My question about the Safety was rebutted by Coach Ford. I simply would have asked LB to cover the End. As I believe your look above leaves your W on an Island and open to the Weak Side runs.


I run a hybrid 46 with wide ends (LB's), 3 Backers and Inverted Corners. As a result I can rush the ends off the corners and force the offense to adjust to pressure, yet still be in Cover 2 with zone under. This way I pretty much have 7 in the box at all times. Which against a Spread team usually means they pass. However, If needs be I can drop the Ends into the flats and Tampa Drop the Mike going Cover 3 with 4 underneath. The Wide Ends put the LMOLOS in a conundrum as he has to acknowledge his presence, yet they are a bit far to reach. If he does try to Reach he leave the DT in position to come up field. They almost have to trap him to get a body on him. Either that or they use a RB to block which takes away a potential runner and receiver. If they do nothing it will be a long day in the backfield.

From the formation above your simply dropping the C to about 8 to 10 yards in depth, bringing the SS up to a "Mike Location", Moving Will and "L" outside the LMOLOS far enough that the TE or OT has to really reach to get there but cant unless he drops straight back leaving the DT unblocked, You can stack your OSLB's behind the DT in a 4 Tech and make it even harder for the OT to adjust. Its up to you to either bring pressure with the W & L or drop them into the short zones. You can even alternate side to side. The concept is very similar to the BEAR 46 in that your forcing the offense to adjust to you and thus taking them out of their game plan while they try to feel out what plays they have that might work. However, unlike the 46 I am not relying on Man coverage even with the pressure. In other words my entire defensive set is facing the backfield and working downhill. Will they complete some passes? Yes very short routes but that is expected, but the pressure will take away the time it takes to get the intermediate and long routes off. Additionally, the pressure will take some of the receivers normally used in a Spread to keep the QB off his backside. If you have a couple of decent D linemen, it makes it really hard to use OL to help each other.

Just some thoughts outside the Box.

JFLCOACH,
Hey do you have anything you can send me on this 46 defense? I am installing that this year and I would love to see anything you might be willing to share.

ctcrabtree@liberty.edu

Thanks,
jonah58

Jonah58

I highly recommend Rex Ryan's materials. Start with this book:


www.amazon.com/Coaching...-Science/dp/1585182346

It will be the best $13 you ever spent if you are installing the 46 this season.

Jonah:

All due respect to Coach Mountjoy, Caveman, and Coach Ryan as I liked Buddy's defense as much as anyone. However, I submit that the version I and many others run is no where near as sophisticated and offers very similar benefits without the disadvantages. I think the best thing about it is that there isn't a ton of thinking to do for the people involved on the field. I would argue that Buddy Ryan's defense requires outstanding athletes with good heads on their shoulders to be the "Shut Down Defense of the mid 80's Bear team. Otherwise things get lost in the translation. He had those folks for a while in Chicago and for a bit at Philadelphia but it tailed off when Key folks were lost or absent. I would almost swear the Vince Tobin actually had as good if not better numbers when he took over. I cant believe I am talking smack against Buddy (somebody slap me). We are talking Pro ball not College, HS, or Junior I think things definitely get lost the further down you come.

The version I run simply requires folks to play their role well and is only made better with better athletes.

JMHO

I don't use the BEAR 46, but Buddy & I lectured at the same clinic (ALL-AMERICAN CLINIC) in Norfolk, Va in 1986. He gave a great 2 hour lecture on installing the defense. He used MANY variations - but BASED out of Cover 1.

I am not arguing Buddy Ryan's credentials at all...The mans a "GOD" in Chicago. However, he had the pick of the litter in most cases for personnel. If Buddy thought you weren't capable you weren't seeing action. Personally, I don't think "The Fridge" was Buddy's Idea at all (Hence the head butting with Ditka). You know two Bulls one heard!? The Bears Defense in the Early and mid 80's was a thing of beauty. He had the "Perfect storm" that few offenses could weather for about 3 or 4 years. It doesnt hurt to have Mike Singletary and Dan Hampton, and Reggie White and Seth Joiner, amongst many other impact players either.

I would simply argue that most HS teams, heck most college teams, dont have that kind of talent across the board. Thus its hard to play Cover 1 and put a clock on people as consistently and with such ferocity as Ryan did with his premier teams.

GOOD article by Homer Smith:

homersmith.net/?page_id=121

One of the BEST variations of the 5-3 is what we called the "5-1". VERY EASY TO TEACH. Very hard to run on, & Cover 1 or Cover 3 vs. pass.

------------------------T

--O--------------------Q------O
---------------O-O-O-C-O-O---------------O
---------------E--T----N---T--E

--C---------B---------M--------B-----------C

---------------------S

E = Head Up 6 technique. Rip thru inside shoulder of TE - C gap resp.

T = 4I Inside Shoulder., Rip thru inside shoulder of OT. B gap resp.

N = Head Up 0 tech. Play to TE side A gap.

OLBers (double Strong Safeties) = 1 yds. outside DE & 5 yds. deep. Play Cover 1 (Man on #2 receivers) OR Cover 3 Zone. If #2 blocks DE - quick run support D gap.

MLB = Stack behind Nose - 5 yds deep. Resp. for A gap away from Nose's charge (check it before pursuing). Cover 1 (Man on #3) or Cover 3 zone.

Corners = 5 yds deep. Play eithert Coverr 1 or Cover 3.

Safety = 10 yds deep. Play either Cover 1 or Cover 3.

NOTE: Very easy to adjust., Vs. 3 x 1 set - the weakside OLB (S/S) simply goes over to the other side!

*******************************************************************************

Here is ANOTHER form of an offset "5-3 Stack" - used by some of the best High School coaches in Va. over the years. Very hard to get blocking assignments down against it:


STACK 5-3

-----------------------------O
-----------------------------O

O---------------------------Q
--------------------O-O-O-C-O-O--------------------O
-------------------E--T—-N-----T—E
----------------------------M
-----------------------R-------W
--C-----------------------------------------------------C
----------------------S


LDE: Outside shoulder of TE. Read TE – Step with inside foot and use your hands. Keep him from releasing inside or from hooking you (vs. a down block – squeeze down and be ready to take in a kick out block; vs. a hook block - contain). QB on option.

LDT: Line up on outside shoulder of OT. Drive your inside pad thru the outside knee of OT – crab to butt of OT (no deeper). Feel pressure of blocks from adjacent blockers and if unblocked – close inside quickly and take on trap block

NOSE: Line up in gap. Read ball & penetrate. Read pressure of blocks from adjacent blockers (& knee of near back).

RDT: Line up on inside shoulder of OT. Drive your outside pad thru the inside knee of OT – crab to butt of OT (no deeper). Feel pressure of blocks from adjacent blockers and if unblocked – close inside quickly and take on trap block.

RDE: Line up on inside shoulder of Ghost TE. Read Near Back – if he tries to kick you out – squeeze down. QB on option.

ROVER: Line up 5 yds deep head up on OT (vs. wing – head up on TE). Flow to your side – check your way out (both backs in B gap – fill for Iso; both backs off tackle – fill inside DE; sweep – fight outside DE). Flow away – check B gap for trap or counter before pursuing to other side. Pitch on option (you & DE can trade option responsibilities). Pass – cover first back out your side.

MLB: Line up 1 yd behind the Nose - facing the Center (split the Nose’s stance with your leg on that side – you are slightly offset). Flow to TE side – fill B gap that side. Flow to SE side – attack OG head up.

WLB: Line up 4 yds deep facing B gap. Flow to TE side – fill A gap on your side for counter. Flow to SE side – fill inside DE on power. On option – fill outside DE for pitch. Pass – cover first back out your side.

CORNERS = M/M on WR’s. (can play Cover 3)

SAFETY = M/M on TE. (can play Cover 3)


NOTE: Adjustment to Twins:


-------------------O
-------------------O

-------------------Q-----------------O
----------O-O-O-C-O-O---------------------O
---------E—T—-N-----T
------------------M----------E
-------------R--------W
--------C-------------------------------------C
---------------------------------S

RDE: Drop off (triangle OT & Slotback) – cover flat.

LC: M/M on TE

RC: Deep outside 1/3

SAFETY: Deep middle 1/3


PS: Any QUESTIONS = phone me at 804-378-0116 up to 8 PM/EASTERN