defending the spread option

quote:

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Originally posted by: Bornn
Coach,

We also use a pro 3-4 defense and we will defend the spread option as such.

Versus Double slot, no TE, inside Veer:
Our two OLB's will play on the Slots/Wings and they will have pitch.
Our 3 down lineman will have dive. We play the ends in either a 5 or head up 4 tech.
Our Mike and Will will overlap to the QB.
Our SS and FS will have QB to Pitch.

A lot of teams will begin looping the the PST to the Mike/Will, forcing our ends to widen. If this happens, the ends willn ow take QB and the Mike/Will will have the dive.

Hope this helps.

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I know this is old. Defending loop blocking scheme would be tough as Bornn describes since the PS OG will have a clean shot at the ILB? Does anyone have any strategy for defeating the loop scheme of a balanced formation on ISV?

We prefer to get "9 in the box" by playing a "4-2-5" with FS ROBBER coverage:

A) Slot arcs OLB - OLB (SS) has pitch; FS had QB; DE has first threat with ball.
B) Slot walls ILB - OLB has QB; FS has pitch; DE has first threat with ball.


ALSO - here is a method of adjusting the "3-3 Stack" to defend Spread option a friend of mine has great success with:

Out of the 33 we mixed the responsibilities for dive and QB with the 4 techniques and the olb'ers. We played the mike on dive, QB, and pitch in that order. The nose always played dive to the ball. On a pinch call, the 4 tech would move slightly inside and take the fb right now regardless of his path. On a Q call, the 4 tech would aim at the mesh but take QB. The olb'ers will hang for the dive when we make a Q call. On a rag call, the rover and gator (the weakside and strongside safetys)come off the edge and take the qb, the 4 techs pinch to the fb, and the olb'ers take pitch on flow to their side. This is strictly a flow stunt for the olb'ers. If flow goes away, they will play normally. If there is a tight end, the rover or gator will go under the tight end to the qb. If he washes them down, we expect the mike to have an unrestricted scrape path to the qb and we will expect to get corner/safety help on the qb due to the fact we are in man coverage and the tight end has blocked. Rug is like rag except the rover/gator has pitch and the olb has qb with no slow play involved...we take them right now. Our experience is we were a lot more aggressive with no reads involved-we give them an assignment and expect them to get it done.

I am of the same school of thought that most good coaches I have come across in over 40 years of coaching (on all three levels) that you have to have ASSIGNMENTS - then add "or the first threat AT you with the ball".

Vs the Spread Option (Navy-style Flexbone, etc.) - the topic of this thread - you MUST give assignments.

An example (only one of MANY): if you were playing a conventional split-back VEER team - the OLB can rest assured that if Y ARC releases - he has QB on Inside Veer, AND, if Y blocks down - he has FB on Outside Veer. We BELIEVE in being that specific!

Ack - In a 3-4 defense - how do you defend the Wishbone "LOAD Triple" (load on your OLB)? Give me your coaching points for your ILB & OLB.



If you play that as you (& "Stoptherun") suggest above - this will happen:



1. Your DE & ILB will tackle the FB (who will NOT get the ball).



2. Your OLB will be LOAD BLOCKED by near HB.



3. The TE will ARC your run support.



NOW - the QB AND the Pitchman will turn the corner with EVERYONE blocked!



IMO - no only must you HAVE assignments - you must frequently VARY assignments. To play a good option team only ONE WAY is inviting disaster.



PS: "JWT" - if you email me at: billmountjoy@yahoo.com - I can send you two different 34 packages vs OPTION football.

Sounds good!

These "Navy-Style Flexbone" teams that align in 3x1 sets & motion both ways; unbalance with End Overs; etc. can cause all of us problems. Without a doubt - it is the hardest offense to prepare for I have ever played against in HS AND College.

Most our our success vs these has come from a 4-2-5 with Robber (FS) coverage (adjusted from Cover-1).

PS: At our Clinic (July 14-15) Coach Will Kitchen will cover all aspects of teaching the "3-4" defense. Will has coached this on the large HS level, Division I College, Division II College, and Division III College. Info below:

Coaches - we will hold our Semi-Annual Clinic on the "Pro-Style" Offenses, & various Defenses, all day Saturday July 14, 2007 at Mills Godwin HS in Richmond, Va. For those not in a hurry to leave - we generally go 1/2 day Sunday (7/15) as well. It is an INTENSE football session!

It is a CLOSED clinic (by invitation only) & there is NO CHARGE. The speakers will be announced shortly, but will include Coach Will Kitchen (authority of the 5-2/3-4 defense), & myself (talking on the Oneback offense). Also - Ernie McCook - Assistant Head Coach & outstanding O-Line Coach at Shepherd University is going to speak on "INSIDE & OUTSIDE ZONE".

As those of you who have come in the past know, we GENERALLY have 1 or 2 College coaches, and a Pro Coach as well. Such noted speakers as Larry Zierlein (Steelers), Tony DeMeo, & Dan Robinson (noted HS Coach & author) have spoken in the recent past. In the past - we have had coaches from all over the US, and as far away as Japan, Finland, & the UK.

We deliberately try to keep this small so the coaches can interact on a personal basis, & try NOT to have over 30 in attendance. Consider this YOUR invitation, but please RSVP as soon as possible if you wish to be included.

Hope to see you there;
Bill Mountjoy
804-740-4479

PS: Those who have come in the past (since 1992) have stayed in the following motel - close to the school:

HOLIDAY INN EXPRESS. -804-934-9300 (9933 Mayland Drive Richmond, Va 23233)

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NOTE: Many at the Clinic will have connections to "Tidewater Football". See article below:

Tidewater Area a Hotbed of Football Talent


May 16, 2007



Texas, Florida, Pennsylvania and Southern California are regarded as the supposed hotbeds of college and NFL talent, but Virginia's coastal region isn't far behind and its influence is growing.

In fact, the Virginia Tidewater area--Norfolk, Hampton, Newport News, Virginia Beach and surrounding communities--has produced football players in abundance through the years.

These days, the college recruiter who doesn't pay strong attention to the Tidewater area is likely to be overlooking key players who can help lift a program.

As the Redskins head to Virginia Beach on May 18-20 for the second annual Redskins Beach Blitz, the team renews its connection to the region.

Through the years, the list of NFL stars from that part of the state of Virginia is impressive.

Lawrence Taylor, Dwight Stephenson, Chris Hanburger, Bruce Smith, Kenny Easley. Mel Gray, Larry Bethea, Al Toon. Aaron Brooks. All of those NFL stars began as high school footballers in the Tidewater vicinity.

Taylor, Hall of Fame OLB from the Giants, attended Lafayette HS in Williamsburg, and played at North Carolina.

Stephenson, Hall of Fame Offensive Center from the Dolphins, attended Hampton HS, & played at Alabama.

Hanburger, who has the Redskins' record for most Pro Bowl appearances with nine, went to Hampton High School, and North Carolina.

Smith, the NFL's all-time sack leader, starred at Virginia Tech and with the Buffalo Bills and Redskins after his days at Booker T. Washington High in Norfolk.

Toon, a standout wide receiver who caught 93 balls for the Jets in 1988, represented Menchville High in Newport News.

As far as the NFL in 2007, you could point to Atlanta's Michael Vick, the Giants' Plaxico Burress, Denver's Dre Bly and a host of others to further the point that the Tidewater region is chock-full of football players with extraordinary skills.

You don't have to look far for a Redskins connection. New Redskins cornerback David Macklin grew up in Newport News, Va., and was a huge Redskins fan.

Brandon Noble, a defensive lineman with the Redskins from 2003-05 before a series of career-ending injuries, hailed from Virginia Beach. A Penn State product, Noble was once the Virginia class 3-A player of the year for First Colonial High School in Virginia Beach.

The family of cornerback Shawn Springs hails from the Southern Virginia region. Ron Springs, an NFL running back with the Dallas Cowboys, played his high school ball at Lafayette High in nearby Williamsburg, the same school that produced Lawrence Taylor.

High school football is a big deal in the Tidewater area and the commitment of high school and youth league coaches remains high.

Of course, one of the best high school football players ever to come out of that part of the state, Allen Iverson, went on to stardom in another pro sport.

This weekend, when dozens of Redskins players and coaches descend upon Virginia Beach for the Beach Blitz, they'll come upon fans who already know about and appreciate their region's football heritage.

Says offensive lineman Chris Samuels, one of the many Redskins expected to be on hand: "This weekend should be a great experience for the fans. A lot of them don't get the opportunity to make it to our games. But still we appreciate their support."

"ACK": You have NOT told me how YOU would defend this offense. You are just content to pass judgement on how OTHERS do it.

I'll make you a deal. I'll send you FILM of US running THIS defense vs the FLEXBONE, IF YOU will send me A FILM OF YOUR team defending the Flexbone. OK? Until you can show me a BETTER way (or ANY intelligent way), don't "BS" me (like that nonsensical post above)!

PS: What I described on this site (under "Multiple 40 Defense" - 44 Technique) I got from a Division I College Defensive Coordinator who has had MORE SUCCESS vs NAVY than anyone (since 2000). I guess you think you know more than HE does, Ack (just PROVE it to me)!

PS: Send the tape of YOUR team vs the Flexbone to:

Coach Bill Mountjoy
1515 Village Grove Rd
Richmond, Va 23238
804-740-4479

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Originally posted on this site as a reply to "Cory" under "Multiple 40 Defenses" - 4-4 Techniques:

It is a NUMBERS game. We always try to "outnumber" them thru the use of the FS as a "ROBBER". That has made all the difference in the world in our option defenses. To me - the "awesome" Navy style "Flexbone" is the hardest offense I ever tried to defend. IF your F/S is a good tackler - he will make a TON of tackles at the LOS on options if he plays as below.

Just as an EXAMPLE - here is what enabled us to beat the BEST Flexbone team in Virginia in the opening game of 2004: We do many different things with our DT's & ILB's, but here is how we played our OLB's (SS's) - DE's - F/S & Corners:

NOTE: They have a zillion formation variations (which I do not have time to cover) but this adjusted simply to everything they did. We did NOT have to check out of it, or to another coverage!

----------------------O
--------------O------Q--------O
O---------------O-O-C-O-O--------------O
--------------E----------------E
--------OB-----------------------OB
----------------------F

SECONDARY: Cover 1 (VS SLOT MOTION F/S BECOMES A "ROBBER") CAUTION: Do NOT try this from Cover 3 - you will get KILLED!
A) Corners = 2 yds. inside #1 x 9 yds. deep. Stay inside #1 at all times.
B) Free Safety = 8 yds. deep splitting the #2 receivers. Vs. motion – slide over on OT and read #2. If #2 releases vertical , cover him . If #2 blocks DE or walls on inside Lber – come up for pitch on option. If #2 arcs OLB – come up for QB on option. If no motion – split #2 receivers – normal F/S play.

OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS: Line up 2 yds. outside Wings x 2 yds. off LOS. Read Wings (#2). If Wing arcs – take pitch on option. If Wing blocks Def. End – take QB on option (make him get the ball out of his hands quick). Dropback pass – lock onto Wing. Play action to you – if Wing releases outside – cover him M/M; if Wing releases vertical or crosses – let him go and take QB. If Wing motions away and flow goes away, fold back behind Def. Line looking for cutbacks, or receivers crossing from other side.

DEFENSIVE ENDS: Line up in a 6 technique head up on Wings (#2 receivers). If unblocked, play from first threat to QB. If blocked – be a football player. Contain QB on passes (force Wing to take outside release) and check for bootlegs-counters-reverses on initial flow away.

NOTE: The Tackles & ILB's can play a VARIETY of looks (split look; ILB's can stack in a 5-3 look, etc.). We change this up QUITE A BIT. The TACKLES essentially have the dive from outside-in, and the ILB's work inside out from dive to QB to pitch.

PS: If the SLOT blocks the DE as you suggested - here are some COACHING POINTS WE USE (if he executes this - having the slot block the DE actually HURTS the offense):

1. Concentrate on Slot.
2. Get on blocker quick with depth upfield.
3. Get upfield - don't cut off inside pursuit.
4. Keep pads square at all times.
5. Get on and off blocker.
6. Get depth and make QB change his path.
7. QB must run INSIDE you - not outside you.
8. DE CAN'T sit and wait.
9. Avoid tendency to take eyes from blocker to QB too quick.
10. (only IF there is a TE AND a HB in backfield your side) Be aware of TE butt/release and then HB load.
11. Don't let ANYTHING surprise you!

ACK,

Have to go with Bill on this one! If your guys don't play assignment football against ANY OPTION GOING, in my opinion, your making a big mistake. The coach who posted above that he don't assign because they see so many diffrent options ( I don't agree with that either) as I always coached my guys to RECOGNIZE what option was being run on them by reading and keying and have them prepared to react according to their ASSIGNMENTS against each one. As MBK has requested, please give us an indepth look at how you would defend and please make it all inclusive as ONEBACK has done in his post. Not looking to argue, but if we all agreed on everything we would all do the same things I guess. Just very interested in your thinking on this subject.

Coach Easton-TIGER ONE

Coach Oneback, I'm not Passing Judgement on anything that anyone has posted on this site, never have and never will, because it's not 4 me to do so...All I was saying is what works 4 me may not work 4 you, and vice versa....Read my FIRST post to stop the run, and if you need more clarification give me a call 502-321-3359....I think that you only read my SECOND post about Attacking What comes in 2 your assigned gaps....IT ALL HONESTY, I believe that we are making similar points especially in regards to playing shelled coverages and switching option responsibilities....Again No Judgement is being passed, and please Check out my First Post.....:cool;

My fault guys, my first post is to JWT not stop the run....:light;

Bill - If no slot motion, do the SS's lock up with the slots?

'CUI' - if no motion, it is pure Cover 1! IF motion - FS calls direction it is coming left or right) & that triggers minor changes. Email me & I can send more on this concept.

'ACK' - I like to give credit for everything I have learned since NOTHING is original with me. I have begged, borrowed, & stolen EVERYTHING I do. If I have done anything well, it is to PACKAGE what others have given me into a simple, understandable system. One of the ways I THANK these great teachers who have helped me IS by crediting them!

Just as young men go to Military Academies to study the tactics of Napoleon, Stonewall Jackson, etc. (the professors feel it important to "drop" their names), I feel it is IMPERATIVE to mention all sources of my knowledge, therefore, I will always "drop names". Read Bill Belichick's book - he credits his success to being a "football historian", & drops names for several hundred pages. He does this in most of his press interviews as well.

I have a certain curiosity that compels me to always want to know the SOURCE of ALL knowledge I obtain. In passing it on to others (IE: young coaches on this site) it enables them to do further research on the source if they so desire (this in itself is INVALUABLE). Try it - I gaurantee you will like it!

One back - Suppose the offense came out in a double tight, Ace set under center with a FB and motioned one of the WRs toward your 2I to get in pitch relationship with orbit motion (left WR motions right when running veer to the right).
C and PSG double the 2I. PST veer blocks the ILB. TE arc releases on SS / OLB. CB runs pushes the CB and then stalks or possibly pushes CB and then goes for FS. BSG scoops for BS ILB and BSOT cuts BS DT.
QB reads DE for dive (it seems like the DE might widen with the arc release of TE, or you could be crashing him regularly). Pitch key is probably FS.
The offense could also check to midline if they see 3 techniques. The TE and OT would probably fold the 7 tech and ILB. PS G would veer release to PS LB, C and BS G would combo BS DT to LB
How do you see this playing out from a defensive standpoint?

CUI - EACH opponent is game planned for seperately on a week by week basis. We NEVER plan for something they MIGHT do (not enough time). We will make alterations, but they will be MINOR. We can make a call rolling the HB up quick & bringing the FS over the top, etc (we do this vs teams that try to crack the FS). If I had FILM of what you described - I could give you an answer - based upon HOW OFTEN they did that, how EFFECTIVE it was, & what PERSONNEL we wanted to take out of the game (for example - we might say that we will totally take away the FB; or the QB; etc.). I can remember ND breaking Texas' 27 game winning streak by forcing the QB to KEEP on the "Triple" because he was the lesser threat of their full Wishbone (he became exhausted, & was eventually knocked out of the game). Film work to us is EVERYTHING - we never base a defense on what someone brings us on PAPER - "the eye in the sky won't lie"!

As I told Deac in the email above - when in this scheme - we like to use two 4I's pinching HARD inside (this hurts not only the midline scheme, but FB Dive on the "Triple") & at the SAME time, stem late to a stack on the Center with the 2 A Gap ILB's. When we do the above combo - the MLB is rarely touched (which also hurts the midline scheme)!

Vs the pure "Flexbone" - they use roughly 6-7 basic formations that we always have to adjust to. We have their "basic 6-7" drawn on a sheet if you or anyone else would like to see it.

Email me if you want to get into more depth on this defense. There is too much to describe via typing without thge help of diagrams!.

Bill makes a salient point..........stemming late is very hard for the offense to handle. QB reads, blocking schemes and the count system change. Forces a lot of teams to predetermine or run double option.

Playing a triple option team..I would stem a lot.
You can control who you don't want to carry the ball.

A gap stack..I like it Bill...force the center to snap, reach, ect. That is why I stated above...whip the center's butt. You've just reinforced that my best D-lineman will be the nose.



bill..jsv14@verizon.net