pointing the ball back

Your discomfort is right. If it's a natural part of a kid's motion, and he's accurate, I might not correct it, otherwise I'd be very hesitant to try to work it into the throwing motion. It's something else to think about and work on (and there's enough of that already), looking at it biomechanically if it adds anything to throw it's very, very little. Here's another reason not to coach it: to point the ball back you have to rotate the wrist internally (thumb rotating down and/or in. As your arm comes forward, you then have to re-rotate the wrist to neutral becuase to release the ball with a spiral you do what? Rotate the wrist internally. So if you point the ball back, your going to cock the ball while rotating the wrist internally, get it back into a neutral position while the lever of the arm moves forward, and then rotate it internally on the release. Just like a simpler golf swing is better, simpler is better for throwing a football. In fact Joe Namath made the point on passing mechanics that the ball should should be cocked at the angle it will be on just before release. Since his shoulders were facing 90 degrees from the target this put the ball pointing straight out from his shoulders.

A little natural point back is okay, but coaching it is a really bad idea.

The Bishop-Dullaghan Passing Camp (the largest in the nation) teaches the QBs to turn the ball back.

Mouse Davis and Red Faught say that the wrist should not be moved.

As long as the ball is released above the head, the elbow is above the shoulder, and the elbow leads the wrist I don't think turning the ball back or not matters.

I know I am not spread coach, but I think I'd like to offer a thought or two on this. The rationale for not moving the wrist is variables in the release. If the wrist moves or changes during the release you are changing the angle of the ball for each throw. Basically, the kid can never evaluate his throw from a single standard because the wrist is different everytime he throws - it is functionally impossible to self-correct, and or troubleshoot a throw with a wrist that changes position on every throw at release. There is a better way - do it before you throw. With the wrist cocked - ball at forty five degrees off the body(wrinkle in the wrist) - the ball is preset to turn away with no need to make a move to do it during the throw, the increased power that coaches mention comes not from the ball being turned away, it is all in the angle of the wrist. A few benefits of the cocked position are that it strengthens the grip by torquing the tendons over the forearm out to the fingers, increases the length of wrist snap available to the release by almost double the normal nose pointed at the ground, places the nose in a better trajectory position at release(provided the hand adjusts for the sudden increase in nose angle - that's another thread), and all but cancels the ability of the wrist to move or change because the angle is a bone to bone position and the only way the wrist can really go is out to the target at release - that gives the same standard for evaluation on each throw - if the wrist fires "too early" in the throw it will fail - simple as that. Bio-mechanically, it sets the wrist up for a very safe and powerful snap on a throw "out" to the target without it having to overcome a hooked or internally angled position which is common to many young QBs and is a major cause of inconsistencies. The power increase mentioned above has nothing at all to do with the ball point - its all in the pre-pass position of the wrist(or in the original message - the idea of turning the ball away and repositioning the wrist in motion, which, in principal, could move the wrist to a cocked position, but the problem is that it typically is a decelerating move to the release - it makes the release more cumbersome). The goal of increased power is attainable and desirable, this is just another way of thinking about it. As the lead QB coordinator/mechanics teacher at three sessions of Bishop Dullaghan in the summer, Dick Dullaghan has observed this concept as I have taught it, and loves the "wrist thing" as he calls it, and how it simplifies and the release. Teach a kid to do it pre-pass and he will see a dramatic difference in his rotation and power. The increased angle and timing takes some reps and adjustment, but the results are dramatic.

Florida State QB Coaches (such as Bill Crutchfield, Don Breaux, Dan Henning) used to tell the QB that the palm should face the receiver as you draw the ball up & back. The nose is tilted to the outside slightly - but nowhere near pointed back. TRY THIS YOURSELF: Hold the football in the high cradle with the palm facing the target - you will get the proper angle of the nose that way. NOTE: You still "cock the wrist" - but don't have to take the nose of the ball back to do so.

You are exactly right! I worked a QB Camp (1985) with Red Faught & Dan Henning (two PRETTY GOOD QB Coaches). They did not screw with the wrist!
Bill Mountjoy

Bill Walsh's Cardinal QB Rules -- "Ball never drops below your waist....Ball is always released above your shoulder" Get your QB's to follow these two rules and you if he has some natural ability to throw, you should be able to coach him into a good passer. Keep the kid from locking his front leg....drill, drill, drill quick release and accurate throws....and stress balance. pdow

Coach:

We categorize passers as (1) punchers, (2) slingers, and (3) classic. The slinger is the only type of passer that turns the point of the ball away from the target as they "load". That is because the slinger uses a wind-up with a big arm action. Randall Cunningham, Tim Couch are examples of slingers. The punchers and classics will "load" with the wrist cocked (creating a wringle in the wrist) with the nose of the ball up, back at between 5 o'clock (assuming that 12 o'clock is the LOS) for the right-handed QB and 7 o'clock for the left-handed QB. The punchers (Elway, Marino) release the ball just above ear level, whereas the classics (Manning) release just above the head.

There are so many bio-mechanic guys today that anaylze this stuff to death. Here is my philosophy: if I play catch at 15 yards with a QB and do not have to shag the football, then I don't change mechanics. However, if I have to chase balls or am jumping all over to catch the passes then we will work on mechanics.

Coach Lyle

Coach:

Carrying the ball too low: Carson Palmer had the same issue from high school until his senior year in college. The "hug & squeeze" will correct this - hug the ball to the body and squeeze the elbows in front of the chest. This brings the ball to the optimum sport to get the best shoulder rhythm and proper "load" to throw the ball.

Stiff front leg: This issue could lead to an injury if a lineman rolls into the front leg. Use a hand shield and strike your QB as he finishes his throws, from the sides, front and back. This will give him the feeling of relaxing the front leg, similar to a second basemen turning a double play. Also, a stiff leg is sometimes an indication of over striding, so you can tie his shoe laces together at the proper stride length.

Coach Lyle

Thanks Bill, I appreciate your response and I am grateful you took time to respond, it meant a lot. It appears that my thoughts, or "analyzing things to death" as Coach Lyle put it, are a bit over the top and I will minimize my responses in the future. I guess I get a little "over-excited" about this stuff. Thanks again.