Disadvantages of the zone?

my only comment about the disadvantage of the inside zone is that in my opinion it is not an equal opportunity play. It is time intensive. We had it in our offense as one of many plays, powers, counters, iso, traps, options and it never was that great. Only when we decided it was our #1 play and we trimmed the other plays down did we find real success.
For example last year, the zone and stretch probably were 85% of our Run Game practice time. Even then we still start the year off slowly when grooming a new tailback.

I would agree with the tobster's comment. We were awful on the O-Line (very young and inexperienced) and running the standard stuff and getting the assignments right just wasn't working. My guys did a lot better when we simplified things and worked the zone plays, but it took awhile to get the combos right. The other problem we had was it didn't work so well against teams that kept the LBs at level 2 (probably due to my lack of coaching the whole concept well) but it did work well against blitzing teams once my guys understood the concept of coming off to pick off shooting LBs. Like any other offensive concept you want to hang your hat on it requires a large portion of practice time.

It takes time to get the footwork right, I was afraid it might make them a little less aggressive (though I don't think it did), and the backs had to get comfortable with their new found freedom to pick a running lane. However they picked it up very quickly and naturally, probably because they'd had enough of getting rocked at or behind the LOS.

Coaches,

thanx a lot for your feedback on the zone.
If I understand correctly, one of the drawbacks is the time you have to put in teaching it. So would it be safer than to just stick with just the zone ( inside outside), plus trap and counter to complement it, and not just use the zone as an addition to your existing playbook then?

I've also heard a lot of coaches talking about vertical push zone, and full zone. Can anyone tell me what the difference is? Is it a different offense, or just differnt execution of the same thing?

thanx

Coach Verbraeken

Vertical Push is more of an Inside Zone technique - your RB should be pressing (replacing) the heels of the PSG.

Full Zone tends to be more of an outside zone blocking scheme... where you horizontally stretch the defense and create creases for cutbacks if the corner can't be turned.

Boy, what great posts by all who answered. Clear, concise and easily understood. It's very enjoyable to share with you guys on the board.

Coach Easton

dont chase

and get them to RUN

blackfly,

What did these NCAA o-line coaches say about the following:

How to block a playside shade?

a playside 3 tech?

a backside shade?

Coaches (Joe & tog);

The defense in question was a 4-3, with a 3 technique to the TE, and a backside 1. The ILB's where ALMOST in a stack type position, but not quite.

The C & BSG were in a combo on the 1 (who was tilted)... and the PSG and PST combo'ed on the 3 technique.

The 3 Technique was doneby having the PST take a zone step TO the DL.

Since the 1 was in a tilt and crowding the ball, it wasn't much of a reach for the centre, but it is still VERY important for the center to swivel his hips into the block (to get hip to hip).

I'm not exactly familiar with the 'rotation' term you're using tog... BUT... the FB was going for a backside unless it was to the SE. The backside DE was ripped through by the BST/TE... and they had the boot action as well.

They were TOTALLY unconcerned with getting the LB's blocked... only driving the DT's into the LB's lap. The idea was to get LB's caught in the wash, and keep the shoulders square to provide maximum blocking for the cutbacks.

Looking at some Wisconsin stuff I have... they were basically going to something like this as well. Their difference was in covered/uncovered rules... you were classed as 'covered' even if the LB was over you. I think it might be a point of interest for me (and maybe others) to ask or make clear what is covered or not... because different folks are classifying this diff ways.

Hope that answered your questions coaches! These guys also weren't crossing over on the stretch, and were using the same L type zone step for both zone plays... 'over and up'. So that you are GAINING GROUND. In talking with them at dinner... none of them were keen on crossing over... I agreed. Something just is uncomfy about a lineman crossing his legs at the LOS like that.

Oh also... they were running an ISO to the 1 tech... and using the zone schemes (to the 3) to do it

They were Miami(fla)... Rutgers... South Carolina... Maryland... some Div 2 places as well.

I assume if the DE is in a 7 that there'd be a OLB (or SS) in a 9 tech on the outside shoulder.

I wouldn't want to run an inside zone play into that. Drawing it up for the look we'd only have 3 blockers to the 4 on defense. Not much of an advantage - I suppose you could have everyone up front base block playside (Center wouldn't combo with the PSG b/c of the 1 technique, if the BSG fails to cut him off it'd likely cause a fumble). I can't answer for these guys but I am guessing:

1. Check it to the other side. There would be a GREAT bubble over the backside B-gap. You could run inside or a stretch play here.

2. You could try running a stretch to the TE.

I know some teams would have the PST and PSG fold or TAG block with the 3 technique.... but if there was a 7 tech... I think you'd go away from it.... so interesting things could happen with motion too!

A) INSIDE ZONE = not as good vs. a team that lays their ear's back & comes. A) OUTSIDE ZONE = not as good vs a quick team that reads & flows well. THEREFORE - feature Outside Zone in situation A), & INSIDE ZONE in situation B)!

One of the GREAT O-Line coaches in this country is Elliott Uzelac. Ask HIM about the Inside Zone, & he'll tell you it isn't worth a crap into a 3 technique. The play was in it's "heydey" against 3-4 defenses - with man over the Tackles in a 5 tech, and a bubble over OG. Here - you have TWO wide sides (B gap defended by a LB - NOT a DLM). It isn't as successful to the reduction side of the defense.

TCAMP - I HOPE THIS ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION:

MOST COACHES I BELIEVE IN (JOE BUGEL; ALEX GIBBS; JUST TO NAME A FEW) DO NOT PREFER THE INSIDE ZONE TO THE "REDUCTION" (WHAT WE REFER TO AS "RED") SIDE - THAT IS THE SIDE WHERE THE B GAP IS DEFENDED BY A DLM (EXAMPLE: THE 3 TECHNIQUE YOU REFERED TO). YOU END UP CUTTING IT BACK - & IF THERE IS A SHADED NOSE ON THE OTHER SIDE - YOU END UP CUTTING IT ALL THE WAY BACK!!! MUCH BETTER TO RUN TO THE "WIDE" SIDE OF THE DEFENSE (WHAT WE REFER TO AS "WHITE") - WHERE THE B GAP IS DEFENDED BY A LB. IF YOU USE A 2 TE/2 WR/1 RB SET (LIKE THE INDY COLTS) QUITE OFTEN YOU CAN GET IN BEHIND THREE DOUBLE TEAM BLOCKS (TE & T FROM THE 7 TO WILL; G & CTR FROM THE 2I TO MIKE; & OFF G & TACKLE (FROM 3 TO SAM). THEN THE RB ISN'T AS WORRIED ABOUT A DAMNED CUTBACK - BUT CAN TRY TO CRAM THE B GAP FOR POSITIVE YARDAGE. REMEMBER - "The best cut is NO cut"!!!!! AT MOST - YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE OVER ONE CUT, OR THE RB'S WILL BE "TAP DANCING IN THR HOLE"). FOLLOWING IS A PIECE FROM AN ARTICLE ABOUT DENVER'S RB'S & MAKING CUTS:

Bobby Turner remains as running-backs chieftain. Turner is the least-known great NFL assistant coach; he's the mad genius of rushing success. In the decade since Turner joined the Broncos, the team has produced star back after star back -- Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Portis -- while running up the second-most total rushing yards in NFL history in a 10-year period. Turner is the key: he preaches a "one cut" running system that forbids look-ma-I'm-dancing stuff. Denver runners are coached to make one fast cut, then head upfield at maximum speed, no further changes of direction, no claiming you were scanning the field for a lane, just make one cut then get as far as you can before someone knocks you down. This sensible system is incredibly effective. Around the NFL, people deride the Broncos' rushing success by saying that the yards are just "the result of the Denver system." Right -- so why doesn't everybody use the Denver one-cut running system?

NOW - ON THE OUTSIDE ZONE - YOU CAN RUN IT TO THE "RED" (3 TECHNIQUE SIDE) OR "WHITE" (B GAP DEFENDED BY LB). MAY HAVE TO GET INTO SOME PULLING SCHEMES (LIKE THE INDY COLTS) SUCH AS FOLDING THE ON T & ON G ON THE "RED" SIDE; OR PULLING BOTH THE ON T & ON G AROUND ON THE "WHITE" SIDE. F YOU DO THIS (PULL; FOLD) - THE OUTSIDE ZONE TO THE "RED" SIDE BECOMES A HELL OF AN OFF TACKLE PLAY & WILL CRAM THE C GAP; THE OUTSIDE ZONE TO THE "WHITE" SIDE SHOULD "CIRCLE THE DEFENSE"!!!

TAPE AN INDY COLT GAME & GO BACK & STUDY HOW THEY USE THE PLAYS.

IN ANSWER TO BELGIANCOACH ABOUT "DISADVANTAGES OF THE SYSTEM" - I WOULD SAY THAT TWO MEN WORKING TOGETHER IN ZONE BLOCKING (OR FOR THAT MATTER IN COUNTER/POWER BLOCKING) MUST GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER'S EVERY MOVE VERY WELL, & IT WILL TAKE TIME. I KID MY PLAYERS & SAY "IT'S LIKE YOU'RE MARRIED TO HIM". I USE THE ANALOGY (NOT "DIRTY") OF SLEEPING WITH MY WIFE - WHEN SHE TURNS ONE WAY IN BED I HAVE TO INSTINCTIVELY TURN THE OTHER (OR GET HIT IN THE MOUTH WITH AN ELBOW) - & THAT COMES FROM SLEEPING TOGETHER FOR FORTY YEARS. THEY MUST WORK TOGETHER CONSTANTLY (YOU WILL DO MORE 2 ON 2 THAN 1 ON 1 IN BLOCKING DRILLS).

TO BEGIN WITH - NFL LINE COACHES ARE CLEARLY DIVIDED AS TO HOW TO DO THIS. MANY (A. GIBBS, ETC.) ARE ZONE "PURIST" & REFUSE TO PULL; OTHERS (HOWARD MUDD AT INDY) DO BOTH - BUT I'VE SEEN THE COLTS PULL MUCH MORE THAN ZONE; JOE BUGEL PULLED WHEN HEAD COACH OF RAIDERS (I'VE SEEN BOTH FROM HIM THIS YEAR WITH SKINS).

MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE IS TO FOLD THE G & T VS "RED", OR REDUCTION SIDE. MY REASONING IS THAT IF YOU REACH THE 3 TECHNIQUE (AT LEAST IN OUR EXPERIENCE) YOU CAN'T CUT INTO THE C GAP AS WELL AS IF YOU FOLD (THEN IT CAN CRAM THE C GAP BECAUSE THE 9 TECHNIQUE DE STRETCHES WITH THE TE). THIS HAS BEEN A BIG YARD GAINER FOR US.

TO THE "WHITE" OR WIDE SIDE - WE ZONE IT, BUT ALSO (IF IN TWO TIGHT ENDS) HAVE FOUND THAT THE DE IS USUALLY IN A 7 TECHNIQUE & IN ADDITION TO FULL ZONING WITH THE T & TE FROM THR 7 TO THE OLB - THAT WE CAN DOWN BLOCK THE 7 & FOLDS THE ON T AROUND (C & ON G FULL ZONE FROM 2I TO MIKE - AND IF MIKE FAST FLOWS ON G CAN PULL ALSO AROUND THE TE'S DOWN BLOCK (THIS IS WHAT I SEE INDY DOING WITH GREAT SUCCESS).

ALL OF THIS IS EXPLAINED IN GREAT DETAIL IN THE VIDEO "COLORADO OFFENSE" by Bill McCartney (FRM 1995 WHEN COLORADO WAS THE BEST RUNNING ONEBACK TEAM IN USA - THE YEAR McCARTNEY RETIRED). YOU CAN ORDER THIS TAPE BY GOING ONLINE & PULLING UP "SYSKOS" SPORTS VISEOS & BOOKS. IT IS AMAZING THAT INDY IS RUNNING THE EXACT SAME PLAYS!!!

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH DEFENSE YOU DRAW UP - WE FOLLOW THIS RULE ON THE OUTSIDE ZONE: YOU WILL HAVE TO DRAW IT UP VS OTHER DEFENSES USING THOSE THOUGHTS!

A) TO RED SIDE - "TAG" (FOLD G & T)
B) TO WHITE SIDE - EITHER ZONE OR "TEX" (FOLD TE & ON T - & POSSIBLY ON G AS WELL IF HE NEEDS TO IN ORDER TO GET TO MIKE).