How many routes in your passing games?

Y would take an inside vertical release run the route from 10-12 yds deep (we want at LEAST 10 on the catch). It makes no sense to put Y on a vertical release & have QB take 5 steps & NOT have at LEAST 10 yds on catch ("move the chains"). Z's curl = 12 yds (12-14). Flat route 4-5 yds depth. A coaching point Sid Gillman used for Y was that if the ILB your side was inside of you at the breaking point - just wall him off from getting out to Z. If ILB was outside you at the breaking point - present your numbers to the QB.

Paul Brown had a GREAT Pro-Set pass offense with Graham, etc. Good players, good coaching, & good execution. Nothing THEORY wise that jumpos out at you, however. My High School coach (who is deceased) played for Paul Brown, & we used his DBP game in High School (1952-1955). Best thing available on him is the book "T QUARTERBACK" by Otto Graham. Otto gave quite a bit on Paul's system. You can find it (search) on abebooks: used books - they have 19 copies available - starting at $7.00.

Don Coryell's (when he had Fouts) stuff is currently alive & well in the NFL. Gibbs was his "OC" when he had Fouts & runs the pass offense VERBATIM!!!! So does Martz, Vermeil, Norv Turner, Dan Henning, ETC. It is PRECISELY the same system.

CHECK THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE OUT RE: THE ABOVE!

His name is Don Coryell.

He is the tie that binds a collection of coaches who have reinvented the NFL's most dominant modern-day offenses. Names like Norv Turner, Ernie Zampese, Jim Hanifan, Joe Gibbs and Mike Martz draw from the knowledge of predecessors Sid Gillman, Francis Schmidt and, of course, Coryell.

When Martz was a young man in the San Diego area, his love for football grew from watching San Diego State and the Chargers. Coryell was the coach, drawing off basic ideas of Gillman's offense, adding his own wrinkles and dominating offensively. Martz didn't miss many of Coryell's games. He grew fond of Coryell and his style at a young age, hoping to play for Coryell at San Diego State, but winding up at Fresno State.

Martz, by his own admission said he wasn't quite enough of an athlete to play in Coryell's system.

"I've always kind of been in awe of Coach Coryell," Martz said. "I've always been such a terrific fan of his system and what he's brought to professional football. He has meant so much to the sport."

Coryell eventually took over the Chargers, flanked by two young minds ready to soak up as much information as possible. Those assistants? Gibbs and Zampese. After Coryell took over the Chargers, Gibbs and Zampese served as assistants, learning the ways of the "Air Coryell" offense. Another assistant in the area was Hanifan, who became, perhaps, the greatest offensive line coach in the history of the league. Although Hanifan was never a coordinator (he spent five years as head coach with the St. Louis Cardinals), his understanding of the way the offense worked help him teach his linemen techniques that would let the offense work.

Coryell said he enjoys nothing more than watching his students run rampant on opposing defenses.

"Watching the guys who got ideas from our offense and made their own adjustments is a real joy," Coryell said. "To put it bluntly, I take real pride in turning on the television and watching their games."

It wasn't long before Gibbs took over the Washington Redskins in 1981. Gibbs, who played two years and coached for 11 with Coryell, added some things of his own to the offense, but his version of it seemed to rely more on the running game than the passing side. He opened up the secondary by running and running until the opponent was worn out. The Hanifan-coached line sparked the powerful running game. The line earned a nickname of its own, "The Hogs", and on the way to Super Bowl XXVI, the unit allowed only nine sacks.

Gibbs led Washington to four Super Bowls, winning three. His offense was a part of the evolution of the Coryell offense. Receivers ran precise routes, quarterbacks threw well-timed, accurate passes and a power running game complemented the high-octane passing game.

Gibbs retired from coaching in 1992, but he couldn't stay away. On Jan. 7, Gibbs announced his return to the Redskins for another run. He brought Zampese with him as an offensive consultant. Martz said he is glad to see Gibbs back in the game.

"What he brings to the league is very special," Martz said. "To have him come back is very, very important for the National Football League."

While Gibbs was making his name in Washington, Zampese was moving around the NFL, leading some of the league's finest offenses. He helped the Los Angeles Rams boast one of the top offensive units in the league and taught Turner more about the Coryell offense. That Rams' team added a young assistant to the offense in 1992. Martz was that assistant and he spent four years with the team.

Zampese and Turner went to Dallas where the Cowboys won three Super Bowl championships. The Dallas offense became known for its Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin triumvirate. As the dominant team of the 90s, the Cowboys flourished behind the creativity of Turner and Zampese.

Turner was the next to get a coaching job, taking over in Washington when Gibbs retired. Turner coached the Redskins until 2000, bringing Martz in as quarterbacks coach in 1997. Martz coached two seasons in Washington before he received the keys to his first offense as coordinator in St. Louis.

"They both taught me a great deal," Martz said. "I followed Ernie for years and years and working for Norv in Washington was an outstanding experience for me."

It didn't take long for Martz to put his stamp on the Rams' stagnant offense. With Hanifan already in place as offensive line coach, that aspect of the offense was secure. The 1999 offseason brought a bounty of skill position players such as Marshall Faulk and Torry Holt for Martz to utilize. Martz's version of Coryell's offense was unlike any seen before. Sure, it implemented many of the same ideas of operating in open spaces and exploitation of weaknesses, but Martz kicked it up a few levels.

Before the year was over, St. Louis had its first Super Bowl championship and the single-most dominant offense the NFL has seen. Kurt Warner proved to be the perfect quarterback for the system, throwing accurate long and short passes and timing everything perfectly. Faulk was better than good, able to run and catch with equal efficiency. Holt and Bruce were the fast receivers with hands of glue and Hanifan's line pushed opponents around. With Martz at the helm, the offense became known as the "Greatest Show on Turf."

Martz said the offense has potential to evolve because every time a coach teaches it, he adds his own expansions.

"Everybody that runs this offense, we all take a look at what we have from a personnel standpoint and try to do things a little differently," Martz said. "It's unlimited in terms of the things you can do with it."

After the Super Bowl win, coach Dick Vermeil retired and Martz's years of work and study paid off. St. Louis made him head coach and he expanded further on the success of 1999. Over the course of his four seasons in St. Louis, the Rams' offense has become one of the most unstoppable forces in sports.

Coryell said the evolution of his offense is a natural order of things and what Martz has done is the kind of changes he likes best.

"I've actually stopped at hotels when my wife and I are traveling to watch Mike's offense," Coryell said. "He is a very, very bright man. I have watched his practices before and you can see the players respect him. They want to do things instead of having to be forced to do them."

Coryell estimated that he talks to Martz and Gibbs once or twice a year, but never about football. The game has changed considerably since Coryell last coached and even since Gibbs last coached, but one thing hasn't: No matter where they coach or what they do, some of the game's greatest offensive minds will always be linked by one man.

His name is Don Coryell.

As far as Tittle with Giants - it is my recollection that they used the IDENTICAL pass offense Lombardi used in Green Bay. You can go on Ebay & buy the great video on Vince Lombardi Pass Offense. Also have seen Vince Lombardi's QB Manual (with ALL the passes & reads) on there. You can order THAT from David at lgcuban@comcast.net.

I'll continue to post Gillman & Coryell stuff. Let me know if the above helps!

PPS: Some interesting QUOTES by Gillman, Coryell & Fouts:

GILLMAN ON BEING INNOVATIVE: "The final frontier is not space, it's the human imagination". "Innovation is when form and function come together".

DON CORYELL: "It was a timing system, and I had only one rule: NEVER PASS UP AN OPEN RECEIVER. You look...you look...and you look, but if number one or two is open, you get the ball to them. Don't wait and hope that number three or number four MIGHT be open deeper. And if you have any doubts, throw the ball out of bounds".

DAN FOUTS: "My rules for the Charger receivers were: 1) NEVER FOOL THE QB, and 2) ALWAYS BE WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THERE".

THEISMANN (WHO PLAYED IN THE SYSTEM ALSO): "I don't like play action passes BECAUSE your safety valve is tied up in the L.O.S., and it becomes 2 or 3 man routes. Also, it is LOUSY vs. the blitz".
THEISMANN: "I'm not a big fan of receivers doing too much reading, because as a QB, I'm not always sure WHAT he's seeing".

Will post more GILLMAN stuff later. Hope this is the kind of stuff you are looking for, J.C.!

Hey Bill,

Sincere thanks for the time and effort expended on answering my question. I really do appreciate it. I have coached QB's for a long, long time and much of the greats teaching of the game have been a part of that philosophy without my knowing it. I say that because I just picked it up at clinics, other coaches, meetings with older coaches, heresay, etc. and I would use what I felt was relevant and workable at the time. I have been very cognizant of the genesis of the passing game with all the names you mentioned from Don Coryell up to the present. I agree with you in that Joe Gibbs always seemed more of a running game disciple, than student of the passing attack. Ernie Zampesi,
Norv, Martz, etc. have certainly made great contributions as they added their own unique tweaks, etc. Was Bill Walsh a direct Sid Gillman "descendent" or where does he matriculate into the scenario? Everyone has their favorites,but to me Norv is the very best of QB coaches! Paul Brown was a great football mind and coach, saw Otto play many times when I was a kid and he was the Browns QB. TOUGH AS NAILS!!! He used to laugh at all the QB protection rules the modern game employs, said they made the QB "sissified" in his opinion. Saw Y.A. throw it for years, never in person, television only but that certainly never diminished his performances! Sonny Jurgenson of the Skins, those were the days of a different era to be sure, but they are what got me started with this lifelong love of football. The posted info was exactly what I was asking for, appreciate the title of the Paul Brown, Otto Graham publication, "T-Quarterback".

JC

J.C. - Ernie Zampese is currently on Gibbs' staff, at age 68. He spends most of his time in the film room, & meeting rooms with the staff. Since he had a stroke about a year & 1/2 ago, he rarely goes on the field. He DOES watch (& critique) practice & game film, as well as film of opponent's defense.

Ernie Zampese Quotes:
1. QB's: Your feet must be under you on the last two steps of your drop. Slide UP in the pocket IF needed.
2. RECEIVERS: Be where you are supposed to be when the QB expects you to be there - DON'T FOOL THE QB! Receivers must adjust to the QB's - NEVER the other way around!
3. QB's & receivers must be syncronized through constant work TOGETHER in practice.

Yes, Joe spends more time on the running game than Coryell (although Coryell's teams COULD run,m with Muncie, etc.), BUT - the FULL Coryell passing game is still in Gibbs' book, word for word. As you know, Joe was "OC" under Coryell.

Hope you enjoy the Otto Graham book. MANY diagrams of Paul's formations, runs, passes, as well as his organizational thoughts. I'm surprised (having known Paul) that he let Otto put that much in print. Joe Theisman wrote two books, with "bits & pieces" of Gibbs' thinking - but Joe Gibbs is VERY secretive, & paranoid when it comes to not letting his stuff out. He is, however, one of the finest Christian gentlemen I ever met, and a GREAT football coach!

J.C. - you asked how Walsh was affected by Gillman. At Cincinnati (with Greg Cook) - Walsh threw vertical. When Cook's career was ended by an injury, he went to the more horizontal passing game with Virgil Carter (who did not have the "cannon" for an arm that Cook had). That was the beginning of what many call the West Coast Offense (not a name that Walsh chose for it - I believe it was Bernie Kosar who came up with that name for it).

If you look at playbooks from Gillman, Al Davis, Coryell, Gibbs, & even Walsh, the plays aren't really that different (ALL of them had 3 (short)-5 (long) & 7 step (deep) drop patterns in their arsenal). What was different was in the USE of the plays. Gillman for example would distribute the DBP game roughly 25% short - 50 % intermediate - 25% deep (THESE ARE HIS OWN WORDS). Davis threw deep moistly. Walsh threw short mostly.

Taking the SAME deep pass (18 yd breaking point or example) - Gillman wanted the QB to release the ball ON or BEFORE the WR went into his "final move". Davis wanted his QB to make "eye contact" with the WR before releasing the ball. The play might be EXACTLY the same, but there were these subtle differences that I have mentioned.

I'm looking in my files for something from Gillman I want to post to you - will do so ASAP.

PS: Paul Brown was credited with being the father of the "cup" zone concept pass protection. When I played in high school in his offense (my HS coached played for him) I can remember the EXACT FOOT PATTERN OF STEPS IT REQUIRED. He also innovated the DRAW (with Motley). Otherwise - Sid's pass offense was technically ahead of his. Sid invented the FLARE CONTROL COINCEPT of check releasing Backs into the pattern - giving the offense "5 out" to "horizontally & vertically STRETCH" the defense (he coined those phrases as well).

J.C. - yesterday on one of the pre-game shows, Steve Young was discussing "West Coast" footwork of QB's. Wish I had taped it. His defintion of the "WCO" is this:

STEVE YOUNG: "The "West Coast" offense is all about the feet. As originated by Bill Walsh, it is any play or set of plays that tie the Quarterback's feet to the Receiver's route so there is a sense of timing".

He went on to demonstrate a 5 step drop. "On the fifth step in the progression - go immediately to the first man in the progression - if he is covered take a hitch step & go to the second man in the progression - if HE is covered take another hitch step & go to the third man in the progression"

More to come on Gillman & Coryell.

Sid Gillman taught the following POST SNAP READS to determine throwing direction:

On inbreaking Horizontal Stretch routes - routes that attack the UNDERCOVERAGE (Curls, Ins, etc.) read the MIKE LB. "Mike" is the MLB on the Center in a 4-3 look, but he would be the first LB to the opposite side of the call if NOT on the Center. He is the man (in a Cover 3) who would cover the WEAK HOOK, & DETERMINES THE STRENGTH OF THE UNDERNEATH COVERAGE. Thus - if MIKE went straight back or strong (on Curls, Ins, etc.) you go weak. If he goes weak or blitzes you go strong. THIS IS HOW YOU WIN THE "NUMBERS" GAME IN THE HORIZONTAL STRETCH PACKAGE.

Now, on outbreaking Horizontal Stretch routes & POST routes - routes that attack the SECONDARY - read the W/S - HE is the man who DETERMINES THE STRENGTH OF THE SECONDARY. If he is moves to the middle of the field (or aligns in the middle of the field) you go weak. If he goes weak, you go strong. He liked these reads vs ZONE TEAMS.

The COMPLETE read in ALL situations (& takes a pretty good QB to handle) is to read the tandem of MIKE AND THE FREE SAFETY. You need this vs. oddball coverage. If Mike & F/S go strong - you go weak; if Mike & F/S go weak - you go strong; if they go in OPPOSITE directions - STAY CALLSIDE (because you have more receivers out that way).

I got this from not only from Sid himself but also Dan Henning (current OC with Panthersa) & a former Sid Gillman QB with Chargers) AND Don Breau (current OC with Redskins) & also a former QB under Gillman with Chargers. We use this & believe in it 100%

I just wanted to say how much I've enjoyed reading your correspondence back and forth to each other! WOW, you guys have truly forgotten more about the game than what I've picked up so far!

Dave Hartman
CYFL Coach

Hey Bill,

I'm fully with what you are saying about reading the defenders verses ZONE coverages (read safety,
Mike Backer, Will Backer. Have always taught locate the FS first as you break the huddle in the PSL,
then the CB's, then the inverts). Then, in the post snap look read the defenders verses zone looks.
Fully understand the strengths of the Mike and SS. Throw away from the strength of the defenders always, in the void created by the defenders themselves. No problem with any of that. In an earlier post on Sid's concepts you wrote that he taught verses MAN, READ YOUR RECEIVER(HAVE ALWAYS TAUGHT THAT TOO) AND THROW TO THE MAN WHO, BASICALLY, HAS THE BEST SEPARATION FROM HIS COVER. Thats exactly how I have always coached it. So, in keeping with the fundamental of throwing away from the strength of the defense, by going away from the Mike, SS, Will Backer you have not only reduced the field to 50%, but actually to 33.3 %. Is that the basic concept, or no?
Your credentials are impeccable to me, Coach, that is the reason I am having your input on this matter for us older coaches, as well as, the newer ones. I certainly appreciate your time to post your very knowledgable replys, and I do not say that superflously. It is great to have someone your own age to communicate with and know that we are helping the younger guys as well. I'm 63 and I believe you said that your 68. We may be getting a little long in the tooth, but I want to be learning and experimenting as long as I am able to be on the field. Awaiting your next post.

JC

J.C. - Actually I'm 66 years young, & going on 67.

Answer to your question was that Sid eliminated 1/2 of the field when reading Mike & the Free Safety - but this was done POST SNAP. SPURRIER claimed he wanted the QB's to operate in a particular 1/3, but Sid remained in 1/2.

Sis taught that there were TWO kinds of secondary play:

A) "SHOW" = a secondary that shows it's intentions before the snap & doesn't change on the snap. If you KNOW this to be the case - you can pick a side BEFRE the snap.

B) "NO-SHOW" = a well disquised secondary that would show one look but actually play another on the snap. THAT is where POST-SNAP reads of DEFENDERS came into play (MIKE & F/S, etc.).

In BOTH cases - once you have chosen a side, then you followed the progression of receivers ( 3 to callside or 2 away from call) to the side you have chosen! Does this answer your question?

Hey Bill,

Yes, it answers my question in it's entirety. I understood that reading the Fs/Mike was post snap.
Yes, a "show" defense these days is pretty hard to come by at our level, as disguise coverages, as you well know of course, are all the rage for several years now. I run a particular one that I have a lot of good luck with; show cover 1 or 3 in the PSL out of my 4-2-5. On the snap the playside SS reverts to the depth of 12 yds as the FS rolls to the weakside hash at the same depth. The backside SS reverts to the middle at 10 yds. The CB's who are sitting off at 5-7 on the backside and 7-9 on the frontside, invert on QB cadence and play hard man under for a distance of 12 yds. They then turn their man to the S on their side and break off looking for any underneath threat that shows on their side. The Linebackers patrol underneath. The D line goes with their ears laid back attempting to reach the Qb while he is trying to read what is going on in the secondary. We forced 9 interceptions last season with that look. Keep 'em coming coach!

JC

NO - I wouldn't have TIME to teach the release required to run a Slant vs "Press" Man with CB up on INSIDE shoulder of WR. Jerry Rice was GOOD at it - if I can remember he jabbed outside, them JUMPED back across the face of CB - straightened his stem for a few steps & then slanted. NO WAY I have time (or a Jerry Rice) to teach that!

As to Rice's Slant technique - all that was written in the playbook was "CROSS THE FACE OF AN INSIDE TECHNIQUE CORNER". IF HE IS PLAYING TOUGH - ATTACK THE OUTSIDE LEVERAGE OF THE DEFENDER & WORK BACK INSIDE WITH AN ANGLE TO PROTECT THE THROW". You can take it froim there if you want to use the technique.

Here is some more SID GILLMAN "gems". In his last years with the Eagles (coaching Jaworski) - he was giving "Jaws" a pre-snap read on the "BEST LOCATED SAFETY" (BLS). He did this BECAUSE with all the disguises - some times you COULD NOT read exactly WHAT the coverage was - so you would attack a PORTION of the coverage until the press box had it figured out.

"BEST LOCATED SAFETY" READ: (FROM SID'S QB MANUAL):

1. The starting point for reading MOST of our patterns begins with the BEST LOCATED SAFETY PRINCIPLE.
2. The BEST LOCATED SAFETY is THAT Safety furthest removed from a W.R.!
A) Meaning - He has further to move to get involved with defending a WR than the other Safety has to move!
3. Not all patterns are B.L.S. read patterns (due to the design of that pattern), but all MIRRORED patterns are B.L.S. reads.
4. When a pattern requires a B.L.S. read, it means determine whicdh Safety is B.L.S. and then attack his side of the defense with the pattern called.
5. CONFIRM THAT HE REMAINS THE B.L.S. AS YOU TAKE YOUR FIRST TWO STEPS OF YOUR DROP!
6. Ifa defense does not show a B.L.S. Safety then either go as Game Planned or pick one out and read him.
7. When the F/S is deep middle playing centerfield, we say the STAGE IS SET!
A) Now you are free to work to either the HASH AREA or weakside to X, and run the HB as long as X in not running an 8 route!
NOTE: Game Plan will dictate which Safety to pick out and read but if not, just pick one anyway! Be alert for Cover 2 (5 Under 2 Deep Zone) OR Cover 8 (5 Under Man/2 Deep Zone).

this is a later evolution of his READS that he installed in his LAST years coaching (late 70's thru mid 80's).