Gap Down Schemes

Not sure I understand your question. What does "GT" & "GH" mean? In any event (if you are talking about the "Counter" - do not let the H OR Y down block anyone wider than a 5 technique, since it is a "downhill" play, & down blockiong a 7 technique not only widens the hole too far - but most 7's are a mis-match for the average H OR Y. Kick out or trap the 7 technique. Also you alluded to zone blocking - when you gap down you frequently combo with an inside teammate (sort of like Inside Zone blocking in reverse order) - is this what you were talking about?.

This is what Bugel, Hanifan, Grimm call "BLUFF". H or Y stick the 7 with a quick inside flipper (gets his attention off the inside/out block which is about to take him out) & turn out on the next man outside (OLB ILB in 4-4, S/S, etc.). Off G traps 7 (if Counter) & H kicks him out if Power.

The way the Counter originated is that you do not choose between man block & combo blocking with a teammate inside. The defense tells you how to block it, and the rules come out as follows:

1. Bubble over on Guard - TE & ON T "TREY"
2. Bubble over Center - ON G & ON T "DUECE" (same tech as Trey between On T & TE).
3. CENTER & ON GUARD COVERED - "GAP" block (everyone including TE = alone).

That is why the play is ACCURATELY described as "COUNTER TREY", "COUNTER DUECE", & COUNTER GAP". It is ALL THREE, depending on the look the defense gives (#'s 1-3 above). We LIVE by that & do NOT deviate. Too much deviation from the rules causes MASS CONFUSION!

"BLUFF" = just as the name implies. TE bluffs 7 tech by sticking him with a QUICK inside forearm shot & turns out on S/S, Rover, OLB, etc (next man outside). This way - the trapper or kick out block is on the EMLOS (Te & H cannot win consistently ve a big 7 tech, & even if they do the play hits too wide).

Very busy now - but the above is self explanatory.

PS: We use the calls above if necessary, but below are the simplified COVERED/UNCOVERED rules for the Counter/Power series.

COUNTER/POWER BLOCKING RULES:

PLAYSIDE (ALL) = A) IF YOUR INSIDE TEAMMATE IS UNCOVERED — COMBO WITH YOUR OUTSIDE TEAMMATE FROM THE MAN ON YOU TO THE BACKSIDE LB. B) IF YOUR INSIDE TEAMATE IS COVERED — COMBO WITH YOUR INSIDE TEAMMATE FROM THE MAN ON HIM TO THE BACKSIDE LB. NOTE: GAP BLOCK VS. "SOLID LOOK".

CENTER = 1ST MAN ON LOS OFFSIDE

OFFSIDE GUARD = A) COUNTER = TRAP EMLOS; B) POWER = LEAD THRU ON PLAYSIDE LB

OFFSIDE TACKLE = SQUEEZE B GAP & HINGE ON EDGE RUSHER

H = A) COUNTER = LEAD THRU ON PLAYSIDE LB; B) POWER = TRAP (KICK) EMLOS

You keep saying "have the "H" base block the man on". Anyone ON the "H" would be a 6, 7 or 9 technique. The CALLSIDE H & TE on the BASIC R does NOT base any of the above. He blocks down vs the 6 & 9, & bluffs vs the 7.

The only time H & Y BASE a man on is with a special call vs the 4-3 OVER where there is a 6 or 9 technique ON him that trys to come down hard & wrong shoulder od SPILL the play. THEN (with that call) he must base him, & the trapper now leads thru the hole. This is NOT a part of the ORIGINAL play, but a blocking variation. UNLESS your H is better than the DE - DON'T TRY IT!!!!!

Really can't tell you any more than this. If you want to call, I can discuss it via phone EASIER. My phone number = 804-740-4479!

One more thing! Check current NFL tape. Teams DUECE it much more than they TREY it, because of the defenses now in the game. YOU BEGIN TO LOOK FOR ALL DOUBLE TEAMS ON THE COUNTER FROM INSIDE OUT. ONE example:

If the callside G-T-TE were covered by a DLM, and there is a LB over the Center (old Tom Landry "PRO 4-3"), the Guard & Tackle "DUECE" block. Why do they "DUECE" INSTEAD OF "TREY"? If the TREY blocked it, NO ONE could handle MIKE A GAP RUN THRU TO CALLSIDE!!!!! Check it out on a piece of paper.

PS: As to my post about H or TE basing a man on - you CANNOT do it unless ON T has a LB on him. If there is a DLM on ON T - H or TE MUST down block (TREY OR GAP SITUATION; ALSO DUECE IN SITUATION IN PARAGRAPH TWO ABOVE) ALL of these situations DICTATE a down block by H or TE.

You need to get than Russ Grimm tape & do a thorough study on the play. It would take a BOOK to describe it. It takes so muck knowledge (of that particular play) & practice time, you don't have time for much else!!!!!

Oneback,
In the earlier post you mentioned, "do not let your H or Y down block anything wider than a 5 tech." However in ther latter post you said, you must have the H or Y down block when he has a 6 and 9, aren't these wider than a 5 tech? My question is whether or not the BSG can kickout the first down lineman past the center, and the BST would look for the widest LB? We have done this and been successful and that is why I keep asking if the H or Y can just Base the man over. The 7 w/ the 44 we would arc the Y or H on the OLB, vs the 6 or 9 tech w/ the 50 we would base it and the BSG would kickout the Tackle (1st man past the PSG) w/ the 6 or 7 w/ the 43 we would kick out the DE and the H or Y would go down to Mike, the BST would look for widest LB.

Oneback,
You are the best! I will have some free time tomorrow morning from 9-12am, Ohio time. Would that be a good time to call. My name is Joseph.

Bill
If the G-T-TE are all covered is this how the scheme works

guard and tackle duece man on the guard, Te blocks down on man on tackle and trap man gets guy on TE?

Joe - the answer is YES! On the "DUECE" - If Mike does not run thru A gap, BS WRAPPER will pull & turn thru playside to take him.

ONLY TIME YOU DARE "TREY" THAT LOOK (PRO 4-3 WITH ON G, ON T, TE covered) is IF DT in 2I (sitting in A Gap) & MLB deep & fast flowing. In that case, you COULD TREY it since there is no threat of LB in A gap & ON G down blocks DT. THEN - the ON T (in TREY) would have to check Mike in a B gap run thru as he builds the wall to the backside LB. This is easy to understand (as described) if you get out a pencil & paper & DRAW IT UP.

HOWEVER - if DT head up on G (2) or outside shade (3) you MUST "DUECE" it.

How often does the kick-out become a log and the wrapper turns up a hole wider on either power or counter?

RC

Oneback,
Why deuce and trey because in deuce the double occurs in b gap and trey the double occurs in c gap?

RC

THE VERBAGE I HAVE A QUESTION WITH. DEUCE MEANS G-T DOUBLE (B GAP) TREY T-TE DOUBLE (CGAP) AND THE BACK WOULD ADJUST HIS PATH ACCORDIGLY?

PARDON TYPO MISTAKE IN PREVIOUS POST: ON "TREY" - WRAPPER TURNS AROUND ON TE'S DOWN BLOCK, NOT ON T'S!!!!!

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Originally posted by: Oneback

A) When you "DUECE" (CENTER UNCOVERED & ON T COVERED) it NORMALLY hits tight B gap, BUT - a 3 technique who loops out into the ON T can wide the hole.

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The T is covered and the TE is blocking down on that man on a duece call.

How can the play hit inside of his down block tight B gap?

Also, is the back running downhill after his counter steps?