Zone blocking the triple

sbruns
Junior Member

Posts: 16

Zone blocking the triple Nov 30, 2004 6:21:46 GMT

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Post by sbruns on Nov 30, 2004 6:21:46 GMT

I was breaking down Georgia Southern's playoff game and it appears they use mostly zone blocking when running the triple option (inside veer). Do any of you zone block the IV? What are the advantages of zone blocking vs. veer blocking when running the IV?

OldSchoolBall
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Posts: 13

Zone blocking the triple Nov 30, 2004 7:43:01 GMT

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Post by OldSchoolBall on Nov 30, 2004 7:43:01 GMT

The Nebraska teams of the 90's ran the option using inside/outside zone to further simplify their schemes and in doing so they found it was easier to pick up the blitz. Defenses were even more afraid to blitz against option for fear of giving up the 85 yd touchdown.

TIGER ONE
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Zone blocking the triple Nov 30, 2004 8:16:34 GMT

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Post by TIGER ONE on Nov 30, 2004 8:16:34 GMT

oldschool (me too, I'm in my 41st year now of coaching) run this down for me if you will: We are in a pro with the "I" backs looking at a 52 eagle weak. We are going to run an inside veer to the strong rip side.
Qb 's read is the 5 tech of course on my T. In zone rules if he is covered he is to look backside to his guard, if the guard is uncovered as he should be in a 52 eagle weak, my T can then expect help from him. If they have reduced on the front side or eagled from the backside and the guard is now covered, my T is to block man. Well, as he is not to block the 5 tech as he is the QB's read as he is the first man outside the B hole, normally he would release to the second level. How does zone scheme make the combo that is an integral part of any option in this scenario? How did Nebraska do it? Thanks in advance for your reply.

Coach Easton

J.C. EASTON HEAD COACH GA TIGERS FOOTBALL PROFESSIONAL MINOR LEAGUE

OldSchoolBall
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Posts: 13

Zone blocking the triple Nov 30, 2004 9:34:06 GMT

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Post by OldSchoolBall on Nov 30, 2004 9:34:06 GMT

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Originally posted by: TIGER ONE
oldschool (me too, I'm in my 41st year now of coaching) run this down for me if you will: We are in a pro with the "I" backs looking at a 52 eagle weak. We are going to run an inside veer to the strong rip side.
Qb 's read is the 5 tech of course on my T. In zone rules if he is covered he is to look backside to his guard, if the guard is uncovered as he should be in a 52 eagle weak, my T can then expect help from him. If they have reduced on the front side or eagled from the backside and the guard is now covered, my T is to block man. Well, as he is not to block the 5 tech as he is the QB's read as he is the first man outside the B hole, normally he would release to the second level. How does zone scheme make the combo that is an integral part of any option in this scenario? How did Nebraska do it? Thanks in advance for your reply.

Coach Easton

As for who the quarterback reads it has been hypothisized Nebraska never ran the triple option under Osborne that it was a called give in the huddle and ran the double to the outside pitching or keeping off the force defender. That is why they would run the FB inside early in the game to setup the option.

This changed when Solich took over and he started running more triple with the tackle coming down on the 5-tech and the guard folding up to the second level. The quarterback would read the 5-tech which resulted in more QB keeps and what many people condiser the decline of Nebraska's vaunted option attack becuase it took the FB out of the mix.

Nebraska basically had five options under Osborne: Dive (inside zone), Belly (g-scheme), Wall (trap), Base/Veer (outside zone), Speed/Sprint (outside zone).

The Dive option was blocked with inside zone with a fake to the FB, and they would read pitch off the secondary force.

Belly Option would fake to the FB then the FB would loop around and block the inside backer and the quaterback would pitch off the force defender.

Out of the I the speed/sprint option was blocked with outside zone leaving the EMLOS unblocked with the quarterback reading pitch off of him. TE would have a veer release and the FB would block like it was a toss sweep.

The wall option was usually ran to the weak side with the FB Trap being the primary play. The only differance between the two plays was on the wall option both the playside gurad and tackle would block down on the DL with the tackle moving to the second level. The pulling guard would kick out on the EMLOS, QB fakes the FB trap then reads the force defender for the pitch.

TIGER ONE
Senior Member

Posts: 6,423

Zone blocking the triple Nov 30, 2004 11:28:49 GMT

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Post by TIGER ONE on Nov 30, 2004 11:28:49 GMT

Oldschool,

Sincere thanks for that breakdown. I knew it had to be some type of predertermined give rather than a true triple option that Osborne ran. In your breakdown on what Solich did, I'm sure you meant the the T blocked down on the 3 tech, not the 5 and the guard folded, right? Out of the 5 options that Tom ran, it would appear by your explanation that he taught reading force rather than a DL with the exception of the speed/sprint option where he read the EMLOS. One thing I don't follow about your solich paragraph, coach, is how he thinks that a 5 tech would result in more QB keeps? I played Qb and have coached the position for over 40 years now, and I was taught and have always coached that if the DT aligns in a 5 tech, that should be read in the PSL and automatically it becomes a give to the dive back, no more reading necessary. Now if that DT aligns in a straight up 4, which in my opinion is how a good T will align because it forces the QB to make a decision, thats another story. But, if he aligns in a 4i, it then becomes an automatic pull and the QB moves on to his second read which is the DE, which I'm sure you are quite cognizant of. How do you reconcile Frank's assessment in YOUR mind, if in fact you do? Thanks again, in advance, for your reply.

JC

J.C. EASTON HEAD COACH GA TIGERS FOOTBALL PROFESSIONAL MINOR LEAGUE

OldSchoolBall
Junior Member

Posts: 13

Zone blocking the triple Nov 30, 2004 13:23:15 GMT

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Post by OldSchoolBall on Nov 30, 2004 13:23:15 GMT

On the increase of QB keeps, personally I have not been able to determine why when Solich went to the triple with the same blocking schemes the QB kept it more.

As for the tackle comming down on the 5 tech I don't know what I was looking at when I typed that I had a couple plays laid out in front of me when I was typing before, guess I glanced at the wrong one...it's been a long day.

The Nebraska Base or Veer Option is straight outside zone (fast rotation) to the weak side, Osborne called the the play Base, whereas Solich would call it Veer and there would be a read or triple option. Everything was still blocked the same way. Guard/Tackle combo on the 3 or 4i with the Tackle working his way up to second level in a fast zone leaving the EMOLS unblocked for the pitch read. The FB's aiming point was the outside hip of the guard on both plays. The center and backside guard would work much in the same way with the defender covering the center with the center working up to the second level in a fast zone and the backside guard taking his man over.

The companion play during Osborne's time was the 31 FB dive which had a center/guard combo on a 1 - 2 tech getting a vertical push up to the backer and the FB aming point still on the outside hip of the guard. The backside guard and tackle would combo the 3 tech but would block it like a fast zone to playside. The twins look to the weak side would take the playside backer out of the box. Backfield motion was exactly the same as "base" option.

While both attack the same gap due to the slightly differant blocking scheme it gave the FB a better path on the dive where having a defender at 3 or 4i would plug up the gap so they ran Base under Osborne in that situation. Solich took the FB dive out and just used veer (triple option) and read it on the fly. My guess is that under Osborne instead of being called in the huddle it was called at the line depending on where the DT lined up (inside or outside the playside guard).

Lou Cella Senior Member Posts: 1,486	Zone blocking the triple Nov 30, 2004 14:30:20 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Lou Cella on Nov 30, 2004 14:30:20 GMT The advantage of zone blocking the veer is that you can guarantee whatever the DL and ILB do on the playside, they will be picked up. They can blitz, twist, slant, etc.... and by zoning them, they get picked up.
	Lou Cella Head Varsity Football Coach Greater Nanticoke Area High School (PA)

LouVarley
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Posts: 85

Zone blocking the triple Nov 30, 2004 14:37:25 GMT

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Post by LouVarley on Nov 30, 2004 14:37:25 GMT

Just some info on the zone scheme for triple option and the Husker option game. The keep play that Nebraska ran was a midline type of play with out reading the handoff key. I am pretty sure that there was no give or keep read with this play - they would pull the backside guard and and wrap around the block of the man over the guard. TB usually led through the hole on the LB. They first ran this play with Scott Frost vs Washington. Eric Crouch won the Heisman running this play- everything else the Huskers did was double option and in the last few years they were using outside zone schemes to allow the QB to keep the ball - saw very few pitches.
The zone scheme in the original post refers, I think, to a scheme used vs odd fronts - the backside guard and center scoop the nose, the playside guard zone steps for the DT(5,4,4i) in order to protect the mesh from a hard slant, if the DT slants the guard collisions him and locks up, the QB would read pull and take the ball out to the pitch key. If the DT sat the guard would zone up to the PSLB. The playside tackle would outside release to the playside LB and wall him off. The QB read the DT for give or keep, and read the next unblocked defender for the pitch key ( DE or OLB). This technique keeps the FB alive vs 5-2 defenses that roll their coverage- we see alot of this look - 0 nose, tackles in 4,4i, or 5's, DE in 9's, Cover 3 - Roll or Cover 2 secondary. Two ILB's in 30's. LB's, DT's, and Nose play the Dive, DE's have QB and the secondary has pitch. There is a mismatch on the weak side of pro but they want the ball pitched and run it down with pursuit. The "zone" scheme helps to keep the FB in the game and gets 2 blockers tracking the playside LB. If the PSLB runs over the top the PSG gets vertical and takes next man to show - climb - never chase.

TIGER ONE
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Zone blocking the triple Nov 30, 2004 14:54:22 GMT

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Post by TIGER ONE on Nov 30, 2004 14:54:22 GMT

Old school and Lou C. and Lou V.,

Thanks for your input, much appreciated. The running of the triple like that and how Tom Osborne ran it, are certainly hybrids. Point in question; how can you possibly call it a triple option when you remove the dive back, see my point. At any rate, they knew what they were doing and what they were trying to accomplish and noone can argue with their success over the years that has only diminished in the last few. Again, thanks for the input.

Coach Easton

J.C. EASTON HEAD COACH GA TIGERS FOOTBALL PROFESSIONAL MINOR LEAGUE

sbruns
Junior Member

Posts: 16

Zone blocking the triple Dec 1, 2004 5:13:45 GMT

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Post by sbruns on Dec 1, 2004 5:13:45 GMT

Thanks Lou. We had problems with slanting 50 fronts and LB/D-line stunts. Zone blocking seems to solve some of those problems, although our line needs a lot of coaching and reps with this scheme. Two thoughts. 1. It seems you need a solid center (especially if he has to block a 1 tech. playside) and 2. if the D-tackle is in a 5 tech., would you make a line call and go to veer blocking (easy inside release)?

Coach Campbell
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Zone blocking the triple Dec 1, 2004 6:20:06 GMT

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Post by Coach Campbell on Dec 1, 2004 6:20:06 GMT

With inside veer using an inside veer release by the tackle everything backside of him is zone blocked away from the play called. We pair our plays based upon best option (read the Inverts) but all schemes are zoned either moving away from the play as on triple option schemes and zone schemes coming around and towards the play on double options. Coach Campbell

TIGER ONE Senior Member Posts: 6,423	Zone blocking the triple Dec 1, 2004 7:26:26 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by TIGER ONE on Dec 1, 2004 7:26:26 GMT Coach Campbell, Thanks for that post! With my understanding of it, is it safe to assume that any gun option you run will most often employ the "coming around and toward the play" technique verses moving away from it? JC
	J.C. EASTON<BR>HEAD COACH<BR>GA TIGERS FOOTBALL<BR>PROFESSIONAL MINOR LEAGUE

LouVarley
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Zone blocking the triple Dec 1, 2004 8:05:15 GMT

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Post by LouVarley on Dec 1, 2004 8:05:15 GMT

Coach - seems like with our opponents even a five tech will read the release of the tackle and squeeze the veer release inside and take dive - a big split by the tackle seems the only way to attack this and still inside release. We see mostly 5-2 and 5-3 with the Tackles taking dive and the ends on QB.

TIGER ONE
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Posts: 6,423

Zone blocking the triple Dec 1, 2004 8:44:55 GMT

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Post by TIGER ONE on Dec 1, 2004 8:44:55 GMT

Coach Varley,

If they do that with success to you, Just run the OSV. Don't give them a TE to work with, flex him out 5-6 yds. so they can't jam up the c gap by getting " to many arses in the hole" if you get my drift. With your TE flexed, he now bcomes the responsibilty of the SS or SAM LB'er and here comes the DE hellbent for leather on his path to the QB. Tell your QB the instant he sees the DE's numbers, get the ball on the perimeter RIGHT NOW. I, personally, have never seen the redeeming qualities of a late pitch. A late pitch to me, as an ex-QB, simply means it gives the force guy more time to lock onto your pitch man! If they are playing assignment football and are well disciplined as any good defense needs to be when facing the option, your in for a real tough night. You know yourself, some nights they are just better than you and you may have to move over a hole, or inside a hole, or run the perimeter, or throw the ball or make whatever adjustments are necessary to get the job done. In utopia, your T is always going to be able to avoid the squeeze and escape to the 2nd level every time, and your QB is going to make a perfect read, and the dive back is going to run the veer angle perfectly, etc. and you are going to come up smelling roses. Then you smell the pop corn from the concession stands and you realize your still in the real world and you had better get to work with some good adjustments. But, imo, any full back worth his salt and is hitting the hole with explosion and quickness, should be able to be through the hole and gone before ANY DT in a 5 tech can stop him. I always recommend when hearing this is that you check his QUICKNESS in getting TO THE HOLE. SPEED is what gets him up field, but QUICKNESS is what gets him through the hole! Years ago, when I was running the triple out of the bone, I would have my dive backs and running backs all work the dots and the jump rope YEAR AROUND. No better tools today, imo, than these two for improving quickness of the feet!
Coach Easton

J.C. EASTON HEAD COACH GA TIGERS FOOTBALL PROFESSIONAL MINOR LEAGUE

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Post by sbruns on Nov 30, 2004 6:21:46 GMT

Post by OldSchoolBall on Nov 30, 2004 7:43:01 GMT

Post by TIGER ONE on Nov 30, 2004 8:16:34 GMT

Post by OldSchoolBall on Nov 30, 2004 9:34:06 GMT

Post by TIGER ONE on Nov 30, 2004 11:28:49 GMT

Post by OldSchoolBall on Nov 30, 2004 13:23:15 GMT

Post by Lou Cella on Nov 30, 2004 14:30:20 GMT

Post by LouVarley on Nov 30, 2004 14:37:25 GMT

Post by TIGER ONE on Nov 30, 2004 14:54:22 GMT

Post by sbruns on Dec 1, 2004 5:13:45 GMT

Post by Coach Campbell on Dec 1, 2004 6:20:06 GMT

Post by TIGER ONE on Dec 1, 2004 7:26:26 GMT

Post by LouVarley on Dec 1, 2004 8:05:15 GMT

Post by TIGER ONE on Dec 1, 2004 8:44:55 GMT

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