Superchief question

44AttackD
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Superchief question Dec 15, 2004 12:44:48 GMT

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Post by 44AttackD on Dec 15, 2004 12:44:48 GMT

Superchief,

I'm following up on the FS Cover 1 message that you responded to. I have the same type of thoughts regarding how you play your FS and I'd like to get a little more clarification from you.

Anyone else reading this thread please feel free to give input also.

Does your FS take the same read, that is a linemen, that you do with your Corners? If you do, what reads allow your FS to come up and when does he have to stay back. Since your FS is part of your run stop package I'm kind of assuming that he comes up sooner than your Corners who are secondary run support. You mentioned in a thread on another post that the only time a Corner comes up is when he reads a drive block and the ball is in the RB's hands. Can you give me a little more detail of your FS reads?

Thank you in advance.

Superchief
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Posts: 270

Superchief question Dec 15, 2004 13:17:31 GMT

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Post by Superchief on Dec 15, 2004 13:17:31 GMT

The FS read is basically the same as the corners. The only difference is that on a pass read, the FS must see what #2 is doing. Since we play the FS in the middle of the field most of the time, he gets a good picture of everything. He can see what the OC(uncovered lineman) is doing, as well as what the backfield is doing. As I mentioned before, we play the FS about 8-9yds deep(even in man-free). While making his read, the FS must take 3 read steps or shuffles or three bounces in place then react. I tell him that if for some reason he gets a conflicting read or is not sure whether the play is run or pass, get depth and then run up on the ball. I would rather give up 3-4 yds playing pass first and reacting up to run than play run first and have a receiver parachuting behind me. My kids get tired of hearing me say that a DB's two best friends are depth and the side line.
When we do our pass combo period, we have a reserve WR or DB align as a center or tackle and make the appropriate move. This has helped our kids get better at making this read. I also have the DB's look at the linemen as they watch film and call run/pass at the snap.

44AttackD
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Posts: 114

Superchief question Dec 15, 2004 16:19:47 GMT

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Post by 44AttackD on Dec 15, 2004 16:19:47 GMT

Superchief,

Thank you. Follow up question. You said you have the FS read #2 after the Pass/Run key. I'm assuming that if #2 goes out he looks for #1 coming in etc. What are your #2 rules and if you are playing a Pro look, when do you check back to SE side?

Superchief
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Posts: 270

Superchief question Dec 16, 2004 14:51:57 GMT

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Post by Superchief on Dec 16, 2004 14:51:57 GMT

If #2 goes immediately to flat, FS looks for #1 coming inside. If #2 goes vertical, the FS must get inside and overtop of him. If #2 goes inside under the LBs' drop, the FS will look for the SE coming inside on some kind of post or crossing pattern. If #2 blocks, the FS looks to the SE side right away.
These reads are not as complicated as they appear; our kids picked them up quickly.

44AttackD Member Posts: 114	Superchief question Dec 20, 2004 9:32:12 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by 44AttackD on Dec 20, 2004 9:32:12 GMT Superchief, What do you do when you face two receivers on each side and want to stay Man-Free? I know that you may check into Cover 3 but if you wanted to stay man-free how would you key that?

Superchief
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Superchief question Dec 20, 2004 14:49:21 GMT

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Post by Superchief on Dec 20, 2004 14:49:21 GMT

Our FS is usually the best athlete on our defense, and we like to keep him in the middle of the field. Our OLB's are SS-type kids, so they are good coverage guys. If we were to play man-free vs 2-slot, the FS might align a little deeper; but his read is still the same. In this situation, we will often stunt one or both LB's, while keeping the FS in the middle.

If we are playing a run team and want the FS to focus more on the run, we will call ROBBER. This call has the C's locked on #1, the OLB's locked on #2 and the FS aligns about 6 yds deep and plays run first. If pass develops, he simply gets depth.

When facing a balanced 1-back team, we will get into a 4-3 and play 1/4's pattern-read if we want to play coverage. If we want to get after a 1-back team, we might stay in a 8-man front and play man or man-free while stunting. We probably use the 4-3 look and stunt more than we use the WT-6 look. We feel that the 4-3 allows us to give the the same pre-snap look in the secondary. The pressbox coach can not predetermine what we are going to do. So now the 17 or 18-year-old behind the center must make all the decisions after the snap.

44AttackD
Member

Posts: 114

Superchief question Dec 21, 2004 10:55:14 GMT

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Post by 44AttackD on Dec 21, 2004 10:55:14 GMT

Superchief,

Thank you very much for your wisdom. I appreciate your replies. I have one more question about this topic. Have you ever in the past simply had your FS watch the QB after getting a pass read and let his eyes take you to the ball. If you did, what do you like about reading #2 better?

Todd

Superchief
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Superchief question Dec 21, 2004 14:11:57 GMT

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Post by Superchief on Dec 21, 2004 14:11:57 GMT

If we are in cover3, we want the FS to look at #2 after getting a pass read. In many of our coverages, the FS reads #2, so this remains consistent. Plus, #2 is a big key to what's going on in the whole scheme. I'm not a big fan of having DB's look into the backfield for anything, so having the
FS look at #2 is again constsistent.

Man-free with a pass read is the only time it's ok to look into the backfield (at the QB) because the FS is is free, and I want him to get to the ball. As I mentioned earlier, on a pass read in man-free the FS looks for crossers first; then looks to the QB as he gets depth. I tell the FS to look at the QB's front shoulder and the direction it points (I'm sure you already do this). The FS is not to fly in that direction until the front hand comes off the ball. The two biggest mistakes I see some FS make is that they fly out on the snap (they'll be 20-25 yds deep in a heartbeat) and the ball gets thrown to a crosser underneath them. Mistake #2 is that as soon as they see the QB turn his shoulders the slightest bit, they turn and run in that direction. Meanwhile the QB turns back and throws the other way. I try to get my kids to understand that the longer they can stay parallel to the LOS, the better off they are. Staying parallel can make up for some defficiencies.

bigcoach0203 Junior Member Posts: 2	Superchief question Dec 29, 2004 21:26:45 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by bigcoach0203 on Dec 29, 2004 21:26:45 GMT are you guys reading the uncovered lineman with the corners or the end man. it seems it would be difficult for the corners to red a guard or a center. thanks

bigcoach0203 Junior Member Posts: 2	Superchief question Dec 29, 2004 21:28:39 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by bigcoach0203 on Dec 29, 2004 21:28:39 GMT are you guys reading the uncovered lineman with the corners or the end man. it seems it would be difficult for the corners to read a guard or a center. thanks

Superchief
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Superchief question Dec 30, 2004 15:45:26 GMT

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Post by Superchief on Dec 30, 2004 15:45:26 GMT

You are exactly right about the difficulty C's would have reading G's or OC, but I know some guys who have them do that. I feel that by having the C's look at the OT they can see the OT and also what the QB is doing (for 3-step drop).
When I first started coaching the secondary, I had the C's read the TE. We ran into some problems when the C's couldn't distinguish between a down block and an inside release on pass. Now I have the C's read the OT to their side, but I give them an option. They can make the high hat/low hat read (which many coaches teach), or they can use the "fire out"read.
The "fire out" read has the C read the offensive lineman who is uncovered (vs our wide tackle6 that is the OT). As the C takes his three read-steps on the snap, he looks at the uncovered man for a run/pass read. If that lineman fires out(across the LOS), the play is a run. If the lineman does ANYTHING ELSE (pull, cross-block, retreat, etc.) the C plays pass until he is sure the play is a run. If you go back through your tapes you can see that there is a difference that is quite easy to pick out. This read has really helped us. We used to have trouble with the C's reading the OT's down block on wing-t waggle as a run, therefore coming up. This read has totally eliminated this problem. I didn't come up with it; I got it from another H.S. coach. It works.

Superchief
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Posts: 270

Superchief question Dec 30, 2004 15:46:59 GMT

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Post by Superchief on Dec 30, 2004 15:46:59 GMT

You are exactly right about the difficulty C's would have reading G's or OC, but I know some guys who have them do that. I feel that by having the C's look at the OT they can see the OT and also what the QB is doing (for 3-step drop).
When I first started coaching the secondary, I had the C's read the TE. We ran into some problems when the C's couldn't distinguish between a down block and an inside release on pass. Now I have the C's read the OT to their side, but I give them an option. They can make the high hat/low hat read (which many coaches teach), or they can use the "fire out"read.
The "fire out" read has the C read the offensive lineman who is uncovered (vs our wide tackle6 that is the OT). As the C takes his three read-steps on the snap, he looks at the uncovered man for a run/pass read. If that lineman fires out(across the LOS), the play is a run. If the lineman does ANYTHING ELSE (pull, cross-block, retreat, etc.) the C plays pass until he is sure the play is a run. If you go back through your tapes you can see that there is a difference that is quite easy to pick out. This read has really helped us. We used to have trouble with the C's reading the OT's down block on wing-t waggle as a run, therefore coming up. This read has totally eliminated this problem. I didn't come up with it; I got it from another H.S. coach. It works.

Superchief
Senior Member

Posts: 270

Superchief question Dec 30, 2004 15:49:06 GMT

Quote

Post by Superchief on Dec 30, 2004 15:49:06 GMT

You are exactly right about the difficulty C's would have reading G's or OC, but I know some guys who have them do that. I feel that by having the C's look at the OT they can see the OT and also what the QB is doing (for 3-step drop).
When I first started coaching the secondary, I had the C's read the TE. We ran into some problems when the C's couldn't distinguish between a down block and an inside release on pass. Now I have the C's read the OT to their side, but I give them an option. They can make the high hat/low hat read (which many coaches teach), or they can use the "fire out"read.
The "fire out" read has the C read the offensive lineman who is uncovered (vs our wide tackle6 that is the OT). As the C takes his three read-steps on the snap, he looks at the uncovered man for a run/pass read. If that lineman fires out(across the LOS), the play is a run. If the lineman does ANYTHING ELSE (pull, cross-block, retreat, etc.) the C plays pass until he is sure the play is a run. If you go back through your tapes you can see that there is a difference that is quite easy to pick out. This read has really helped us. We used to have trouble with the C's reading the OT's down block on wing-t waggle as a run, therefore coming up. This read has totally eliminated this problem. I didn't come up with it; I got it from another H.S. coach. It works.

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Post by 44AttackD on Dec 15, 2004 12:44:48 GMT

Post by Superchief on Dec 15, 2004 13:17:31 GMT

Post by 44AttackD on Dec 15, 2004 16:19:47 GMT

Post by Superchief on Dec 16, 2004 14:51:57 GMT

Post by 44AttackD on Dec 20, 2004 9:32:12 GMT

Post by Superchief on Dec 20, 2004 14:49:21 GMT

Post by 44AttackD on Dec 21, 2004 10:55:14 GMT

Post by Superchief on Dec 21, 2004 14:11:57 GMT

Post by bigcoach0203 on Dec 29, 2004 21:26:45 GMT

Post by bigcoach0203 on Dec 29, 2004 21:28:39 GMT

Post by Superchief on Dec 30, 2004 15:45:26 GMT

Post by Superchief on Dec 30, 2004 15:46:59 GMT

Post by Superchief on Dec 30, 2004 15:49:06 GMT

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